Dominion vs determinism

[Silverhair]

Yes, they do.

@KenH what I am pointing out to you is the fact that for a a consistent Calvinist there is no way to know if he has been chosen for self-deception or true salvation.

You can hope you were chosen before the foundation of the world but that is the best you can do, hope.

Is it not the calvinists that tell us that those that in the end fall away never really believed in the first place even though their lives and confession would indicate they did?

 

[Silverhair]

No. I actually believe. Just as every breath I take is given to me by God, but it is my actual physical lungs that expand to take in the breath, and contract to expel the breath, and then the cycle repeats as long as God gives me the breaths.

As a consistent calvinist the best you can do is believe you believe.

Note: I do not doubt that you are a Christian, I am just pointing out the flaw in the system you hold.

 

[Psalty]

If God had not chosen a people to save, then no one would be saved. Period. It is that plain and simple in the Bible.

He HAS chosen a people. The people that believe in Jesus. And He HAS predestined all those people to be holy and blameless before Him. Eph 1:4-5.

If you have a problem with how I - a wretched, vile, sinner - attempt to communicate that Biblical fact, I understand. There is nothing that I do that is not stained with the corruption of my flesh.

Im just pointing out how much better Calvinists believe they are. They were chosen by Gods mysterious will for reasons unknown to be saved. They are better in the only way that matters compared to the reprobate. The unelect are scum, unchoaen and without hope. They are dung to be burned to the glory of God. But you are chosen. You have value. You are so much better. You you you, elect elect elect.

I wonder if you can even hear how much you glorify yourself, even in worm-theology. “Im a vile worm, but Im eternally loved unlike those unelect! God loves me! Meeeeees!”

 

[KenH]

@KenH what I am pointing out to you is the fact that for a a consistent Calvinist there is no way to know if he has been chosen for self-deception or true salvation.

We fundamentally disagree on that.

You can hope you were chosen before the foundation of the world but that is the best you can do, hope.

We fundamentally disagree on that.

Is it not the calvinists that tell us that those that in the end fall away never really believed in the first place even though their lives and confession would indicate they did?

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[KenH]

As a consistent calvinist the best you can do is believe you believe.

As a child of God, I know whom I have believed and and persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him against that day. (2 Timothy 1:12)

And what have I committed unto Him? My whole salvation.

 

[Silverhair]

If God had not chosen a people to save, then no one would be saved. Period. It is that plain and simple in the Bible.

If you have a problem with how I - a wretched, vile, sinner - attempt to communicate that Biblical fact, I understand. There is nothing that I do that is not stained with the corruption of my flesh.

As you said Ken it is how you understand the word of God but you are selective in what you accept from the word of God.

God chooses who will be saved and it is those that have freely trusted in His risen son.

You are under the impression that you were so special that He picked you out before creation, do you not see the arrogance in that view.

When you stand before God at judgement and He asks why He should allow you into His heaven what are you going to say:

1] I was elected before the foundation of the world

or

2] I place my trust in your risen son Christ Jesus and His finished work on the cross.

 

[KenH]

Im just pointing out how much better Calvinists believe they are.

I am a wretched, vile, sinner. To borrow a phrase, I am just a mercy beggar.

They were chosen by Gods mysterious will for reasons unknown to be saved.

God loves me, because He loves me. There is not a single thing that is lovable in me of myself. I am a wretched, vile, sinner.

You have value.

I have no value in myself. The value is in Christ and Christ alone.

You are so much better.

I am a filthy, rotten sinner.


Your rantings remind me of this song:

 

[Psalty]

I am a wretched, vile, sinner. To borrow a phrase, I am just a mercy beggar.


God loves me, because He loves me. There is not a single thing that is lovable in me of myself. I am a wretched, vile, sinner.



I have no value in myself. The value is in Christ and Christ alone.



I am a filthy, rotten sinner.



Your rantings remind me of this song:

Its very telling that you stop at the sinner part and refuse to talk about the reason why God elected you and not others. You refuse to say it because of how bad your system fails.

But your silence reveals the truth: you believe you are better because God chose you over the non elect.

Thats fine, you can keep ignoring the deep doctrines of calvinism that are spelled out in the confessions to avoid exposing how bad your system really is. Youve ignored stuff early on and I expect you will run away again!

 

[KenH]

When you stand before God at judgement and He asks why He should allow you into His heaven what are you going to say:

1] I was elected before the foundation of the world

or

2] I place my trust in your risen son Christ Jesus and His finished work on the cross.

1) No one will be asked that question.

2) Hypothetically, if anyone asks me that question, even today, I would not say anything - I would simply point to Christ.

 

[KenH]

You are under the impression that you were so special that He picked you out before creation, do you not see the arrogance in that view.

Your rantings also remind me of that song I posted in my post #207.

 

[Silverhair]

We fundamentally disagree on that.

Are you not a consistent calvinist Ken?

We fundamentally disagree on that.

We can disagree but the reality of your position is just that.

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

I know what the bible says Ken but a consistent calvinist as yourself would just say they were not chosen before the foundation of the world. They were always lost even though God made them seem to be saved.

 

[KenH]

Its very telling that you stop at the sinner part and refuse to talk about the reason why God elected you and not others. You refuse to say it because of how bad your system fails.

 

[KenH]

But your silence reveals the truth: you believe you are better because God chose you over the non elect.

Your rantings continue to remind me of that song that posted in my post #207 above.

 

[KenH]

Thats fine, you can keep ignoring the deep doctrines of calvinism that are spelled out in the confessions to avoid exposing how bad your system really is. Youve ignored stuff early on and I expect you will run away again!

The gospel of Christ is from the Bible, not confessions written by men.

 

[Silverhair]

Your rantings also remind me of that song I posted in my post #207.

Ken it is because I care about your eternal soul that I point out the errors of the false religion you hold.

Would you rather I not point out the biblical truths to you?

 

[KenH]

I know what the bible says Ken but a consistent calvinist as yourself would just say they were not chosen before the foundation of the world.

Well, then, sounds like I am not a consistent Calvinist. Which is not suprising as I am not even a Calvinist. I am a sovereign grace Baptist.

 

[Silverhair]

The gospel of Christ is from the Bible, not confessions written by men.

But you Ken believe the writings of men such as Augustine, Calvin over the word of God.

 

[KenH]

Ken it is because I care about your eternal soul that I point out the errors of the false religion you hold.

I hold to the gospel of Christ revealed in God's Word.

 

[Silverhair]

Well, then, sounds like I am not a consistent Calvinist. Which is not suprising as I am not even a Calvinist. I am a sovereign grace Baptist.

You can call yourself a sovereign grace Baptist but you still hold to calvinist philosophy.

A calvinist by any other name is still a calvinist.

 

[KenH]

But you Ken believe the writings of men such as Augustine, Calvin over the word of God.

Nope. If Augustine, or Calvin, or any person states something that agrees with God's Word, then I agree with them on that. I judge what Augustine, or Calvin, or you, or anyone else says, based on the Bible, not the other way around.