Water Baptism

[timf]

I went to a Baptist church for a number of years that taught that water baptism was not necessary for salvation, but rather was a testimony of one's faith. It is difficult to think of any denomination (except perhaps Church of Christ) that takes baptism more seriously than Baptists. However, in considering if water baptism is a requirement for Christians or perhaps a misapplied legacy from the kingdom gospel, I thought I would solicit opinions.

The first problem is the word "baptism" which is a transliteration of baptizo, I suspect that the KJV translators were reluctant to use the English word immersion (as of dishes and sinking ships) as a translation as it would create trouble for those who saw salvation in infant baptism. The Jews had a long tradition of various washings and mikveh. If one consider the "church" as starting in Acts 2, then Acts 2:38 would seem to apply the requirement of baptism to salvation.

One has to consider the statement by Paul that while he did baptize a few, Jesus did not send him to baptize (1Cor1:17). Then there is the assertion that there is "one" baptism, which is taken to be the "immersion" of the believer into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. If water baptism is excluded from the "one" baptism, does this mean it shouldn't be practiced?

Is this confusion resolved by a two gospel view of the new testament. If the kingdom gospel offered to the nation of Israel in fulfillment of prophecy is different that the individual gospel of grace for the gentiles, might the idea of water baptism belong to Israel?

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Just interested to hear thoughts on this distinction.

 

[Van]

I went to a Baptist church for a number of years that taught that water baptism was not necessary for salvation, but rather was a testimony of one's faith. It is difficult to think of any denomination (except perhaps Church of Christ) that takes baptism more seriously than Baptists. However, in considering if water baptism is a requirement for Christians or perhaps a misapplied legacy from the kingdom gospel, I thought I would solicit opinions.

The first problem is the word "baptism" which is a transliteration of baptizo, I suspect that the KJV translators were reluctant to use the English word immersion (as of dishes and sinking ships) as a translation as it would create trouble for those who saw salvation in infant baptism. The Jews had a long tradition of various washings and mikveh. If one consider the "church" as starting in Acts 2, then Acts 2:38 would seem to apply the requirement of baptism to salvation.

One has to consider the statement by Paul that while he did baptize a few, Jesus did not send him to baptize (1Cor1:17). Then there is the assertion that there is "one" baptism, which is taken to be the "immersion" of the believer into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. If water baptism is excluded from the "one" baptism, does this mean it shouldn't be practiced?

Is this confusion resolved by a two gospel view of the new testament. If the kingdom gospel offered to the nation of Israel in fulfillment of prophecy is different that the individual gospel of grace for the gentiles, might the idea of water baptism belong to Israel?

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Just interested to hear thoughts on this distinction.

Excellent Post! Great questions.

I believe the problem is with the word baptism, does it refer to our spiritual immersion into Christ's spiritual body, such that we are then "in Christ," or does the word refer to our water baptism done according to the command of Christ? An initial step is the study of Baptism is to search to find every place the various forms of the word appear in the New Testament and mark the margin with either "water baptism by men" or "spiritual baptism by God." And if you are unsure which to apply, you have met the enemy.

 

[37818]

1 Corinthians 1:17, For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

 

[37818]

1 Corinthians 1:17, For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Believer's water immersion is done in addition with the gospel.

 

[Deacon]

Please pardon my intrusion into the Fundamental Forum (is this really necessary anymore?).

I find it strange that when I study a particular book of the bible, every passage I read relates to every other part of the Scriptures I read in some way.
I'm studying Joshua now. In Joshua 5 the entire (male) population of Israel is circumcised.

In Colossians Paul connects circumcision and baptism by reinterpreting the Old Testament covenant practice of circumcision in light of Christ’s work.

Paul describes believers as,

“...circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God," (Colossians 2:11-12 ESV)

In the Old Testament, circumcision was established as God’s covenant sign with Abraham, marking the flesh as evidence of the covenant relationship (Gen 17:9–14).
The sign of the covenant in New Testament is the Spirit; immersive water baptism being an outward sign of that inward reality.

So the sign of circumcision foreshadowed baptism — water baptism being an outward sign of the internal transformation which occurs upon one's believing in faith.

No, water baptism is not necessary for one's salvation, it is a testimony of a believers inward transformation.

Rob

 

[JD731]

Israel, the nations, and the church are separate entities but they are not in separate kingdoms. There is one kingdom. When this kingdom is finally established it will have a three dimensional reality. Each of these three entities will have their functions and their place in the kingdom. The original intent of God was a kingdom on earth with the son of God ruling over it and the kingdom theme runs from creation to and through eternity. Adam was said to be the son of God in Luke 3.

Today we are living in what God calls the mysteries of the kingdom of God. They are mysteries because it is the time God is forming the church, This was his eternal purpose but it was not revealed in time past. It was hidden and only revealed in this age. Even though the formation of the church is taking place now with the finish line looming near, it remains something that must be revealed to it's members by the Spirit of God. The natural and religious man who relies on their own abilities to figure things out will not ever see the divisions in this kingdom. We are told this in the inspired scriptures.

The foundation of the church is built on the same foundation of the kingdom in it's physical form, which is Abrahams miraculous son, Isaac, who birth Israel, who had 12 sons called by God, the children of Israel. Through this family we are told all the families of the earth will be blessed. This family has an everlasting relationship with God as the people of God on the earth. They have been promised the land of Israel for eternity and God himself in the person of Jesus Christ will one day rule as King over Israel and all the nations of the earth.

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are (all Jews), Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Matt 19:
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

This is my take on the subject.

How can anyone reading this try to convince us that there is no earthly kingdom of Israel in the future after reading the testimony of Jesus himself saying there will be. If people would believe what is obviously true God would give more light on the details.





Baptism in water is in the context of the kingdom of God and has more that one application in time.

 

[37818]

.

In Colossians Paul connects circumcision and baptism by reinterpreting the Old Testament covenant practice of circumcision in light of Christ’s work.

Not so.
Colossians 2:11-12, In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Circumcision of the heart done without hands is not being equated with water immersion burial done with hands.