Why Do Both Paul and Peter refer to The Jewish Foundation of the Church as a Nation

[JD731]

See Here:

1 Peter 2:9
But ye (strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 1 Pe 1;1) are a chosen generation, (a generation is 70 years - Psa 90:10) a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

1 Peter 2:12
Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

1 Peter 4:3
For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

Romans 10:19
But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.


Ho 1:9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi (not my people): for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.


1 Pe 2 10 Which in time past were not a people (they were not a people from 722 BC because they were dispersed from their land and scattered and the mercy was the reconciling via the cross of Christ and the new birth), but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

The Jewish writers of the NT did not preach to the strangers and Pilgrims, the circumcision, to whom they were sent, about the rapture. They spoke about his coming in revelation glory with the earthly glorious kingdom of Jesus Christ in mind.

I have more questions that deserve answers.

 

[kyredneck]

1 Peter 2:12
Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

1 Peter 4:3
For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

Paul wrote this to the church at Corinth:

1st Corinthians Chapter 12

2​	Ye know that when ye were Gentiles ye were led away unto those dumb idols, howsoever ye might led.

If they're no longer gentiles what are they?

 

[JD731]

Paul wrote this to the church at Corinth:

1st Corinthians Chapter 12

2​	Ye know that when ye were Gentiles ye were led away unto those dumb idols, howsoever ye might led.

If they're no longer gentiles what are they?

If "who " are no longer gentiles?

I was looking for answers more than questions.

 

[kyredneck]

If they're no longer gentiles what are they?

I was looking for answers more than questions.

They’re a new creature, the Israel of God, where neither circumcision nor uncircumsion is anything.

 

[JD731]

They’re a new creature, the Israel of God, where neither circumcision nor uncircumsion is anything.

Who? Are they culturally not gentiles, socially,,physicall

 

[Ascetic X]

In Christ, when a person is born again, there are no ethnic, cultural, race, economic status, master-servant rank, or gender distinctions.

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


In society, outside of Christ, there are 3 types of people.

1 Corinthians 10:32

Give no offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God

 

[kyredneck]

Who? Are they culturally not gentiles, socially,,physicall

<sigh>

Romans Chapter 2

29​	but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[37818]

Peter refers to priesthood of believers as "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy."

Being both the uncircumcised gentile and the Israel of God.

 

[kyredneck]

Being both the uncircumcised gentile and the Israel of God.

You're still making a distinction here, why?

The new creature IS the Israel of God, where neither circumcision nor uncircumsion is anything. As in:

Ephesians Chapter 2

14​	For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
15​	having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace;

Galatians Chapter 6

15​	For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16​	And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

John Chapter 10

16​	And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd.

 

[37818]

You're still making a distinction here, why?

Because God makes that distinction.

Galatians 6:15-16, For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Because circumcision and uncircumcision is in fact a distinction.

 

[kyredneck]

Because God makes that distinction.

???

How stubborn can you be? You make 'a distinction' between Jew and non-Jew that the scripture tells you multiple times is not there:

And the Spirit bade me go with them, making no distinction...Acts 11:12

and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Acts 15:9

even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; Ro 3:22

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: Ro 9:12

For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek: for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich unto all that call upon him: Ro 10:12

where there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, bondman, freeman; but Christ is all, and in all. Col 3:11

There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:28

For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13

15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Gal 6

14 For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
15 having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; Eph 2

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10

...only Dispies make a distinction, placing Jews on a pedestal, bordering on idolatry.

 

[kyredneck]

Because circumcision and uncircumcision is in fact a distinction.

Philippians Chapter 3

3​	for we are the circumcision (READ ISRAEL OF GOD), who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh:

 

[JD731]

You're still making a distinction here, why?

The new creature IS the Israel of God, where neither circumcision nor uncircumsion is anything. As in:

Ephesians Chapter 2

14​	For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
15​	having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace;

Galatians Chapter 6

15​	For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16​	And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

John Chapter 10

16​	And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd.

You guys are wanting to change the subject of the op. The question is in the op and you are silent on it. Let me remind you fellows that Jesus Christ believed that there is a future for Israel, with her 12 tribes, on the earth as late as his journey from Ephraim on the Jordan River where John the Baptist baptized and where he went after he raised Lazarus from the dead. He was coming back now for the feast of Passover. This means that there will be a resurrection of Jesus Christ, because he is already sentenced to death by his countrymen and there will also be a resurrection of the 12 apostles because I have read their histories and they all died without setting upon the thrones of the 12 tribes of Israel.
I would like to hear you say that Jesus Christ was not telling the truth or that his words carry no weight. Following is the conversation I am referring to.

See what you get out of this;

Mt 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

Referring to the same event in Acts 3, Peter said this:
Ac 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (every singe one a son of Abraham after the flesh)
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

So, the plan is a lot of resurrection will take place and these 12 apostles and the 70 elders that Jesus chose will both be the foundation of the church of Jesus Christ and also the rulers over a 100% saved Israel.

The church of Jesus Christ, his body, is one new man, a trinity, Jew, gentile, and the Holy Ghost. This is what the scriptures teach.

 

[JD731]

Following up on my last post let me say that all the apostles and prophets agree that the church of Jesus Christ, with its foundation of Jewish apostles and prophets, eye witnesses of his death burial and resurrection if you will, all agreed that the church and Israel were separate entities, and they made it known in this event. A controversy over whether the gentiles who had been converted by the gospel were compelled by that gospel to keep parts of the Law of Moses. This is historical fact written by Luke.

Ac 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and [of] the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:

I want you to see this.
1) At the first
2) After this


14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,


16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

The saved Jew and the saved gentile are in the same body equally as the sons of God by the new birth, but they are two different entities until the dispersion and the end of any national identity of Israel, when God views them as gentiles. This means that the church is in character as a gentile entity and this fact is prefigured in the OT scriptures 8 different times. Eight is the number for new things.

Jesus came into the world to establish his kingdom over his people, the Jews, and over the gentiles. He said it over and over. But the Jews would not believe. After all had transpired in that generation and it ended, neither Jesus or the nation was in the land for nearly 1900 years. That is changed in our lifetime. The time for the coming of Christ is near.

 

[JD731]

In Christ, when a person is born again, there are no ethnic, cultural, race, economic status, master-servant rank, or gender distinctions.

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.


In society, outside of Christ, there are 3 types of people.

1 Corinthians 10:32

Give no offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God

Galatians was the first of Paul's letters to churches. It was written in 49 AD. The emphasis of Ga 3:28 is the oneness , or unity of the body. all are equal in the body but there are still parts of the body as is explained in 1 Cor 12. Paul, who wrote Romans in 58 AD said there were Jews in the body. It is in the same context from where my op inspiration came.

Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation (the scattered strangers who believed) I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time (58 AD) also there is a remnant (of Israelites) according to the election of grace.

I personally believe the scriptures are making a distinction here between the saved Israelites and the lost Israelites, callingthe very small number of them who are saved the" remnant according to the election of grace." Ro 7:1 thru Ro 11:12 is strictly Jewish context. The epistle of Romans, I believe, follows the seven division framework of the dispensational framework of the whole Bible.

 

[canadyjd]

The throne of God, which Jesus will sit upon is in heaven. The 12 thrones of the Israelites are in heaven (actually it is 24 thrones per Revelation) all of which are in heaven (if you believe they are literal thrones rather than symbolic)

The word “nation” refers to a designated people, NOT a physical location on the earth, which is the context of the passage.

You are applying a 21st century understanding of the word “nation” as a physical location to a 1st Century document which is very clearly referring to PEOPLE, not geography.

Such is the illogical conclusions of dispensationalism.

Peace to you

 

[JD731]

The throne of God, which Jesus will sit upon is in heaven. The 12 thrones of the Israelites are in heaven (actually it is 24 thrones per Revelation) all of which are in heaven (if you believe they are literal thrones rather than symbolic)

The word “nation” refers to a designated people, NOT a physical location on the earth, which is the context of the passage.

You are applying a 21st century understanding of the word “nation” as a physical location to a 1st Century document which is very clearly referring to PEOPLE, not geography.

Such is the illogical conclusions of dispensationalism.

Peace to you

Thank you for your comments.

 

[JD731]

You're still making a distinction here, why?

The new creature IS the Israel of God, where neither circumcision nor uncircumsion is anything. As in:

Ephesians Chapter 2

14​	For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
15​	having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace;

Galatians Chapter 6

15​	For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16​	And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

John Chapter 10

16​	And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd.

ky, the feast of the Lord are prophetic in nature. I am going to record for you what God expected under the ceremonial law of Moses for the feast of first fruits. This is Pentecost (means 50). The symbolism for the 2 loafs of fine flower stands for the Jewish believers and the gentile believers. They are one as the body and soul are one but they are distinct. The Bible is a spiritual book but it is 100% true.

Le 23:15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat (meal) offering unto the Lord.
17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals; they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the Lord. (our bodies have leaven = sin in them)

18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the Lord, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the Lord.
19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings.
20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the Lord, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the Lord for the priest.
21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.
22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the Lord your God.

The church of Jesus Christ is presented to us as having Jews and gentiles in it in several different ways. We do not want to be ignorant of the teaching of the Lord.

 

[MrW]

Paul wrote this to the church at Corinth:

1st Corinthians Chapter 12

2​	Ye know that when ye were Gentiles ye were led away unto those dumb idols, howsoever ye might led.

If they're no longer gentiles what are they?

Christian saints. Technically, Gentile equates to pagan.

 

[37818]

Philippians Chapter 3

3​	for we are the circumcision (READ ISRAEL OF GOD), who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh:

Galatians 6:15-16, For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.