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Biblicism

Armchair Apologist

Active Member
Yeah no problem with that obviously..that's someone saying He is Lord God..rather than trying to MAKE Him Lord over every area of their life.

They are receiving salvation rather than making some kind of commitment to life long service that they will inevitably fail in.
What exactly is the difference? And what do you mean by "Life Long service?"

How do you explain the process of sanctification? It should go without saying that it is not instantaneous but progressive but nonetheless, it is something that is evident in the life of everyone who is a genuine believer!

Making Jesus "Lord" is not some sort of "added option" you can sign onto when you trust Christ. As a matter of fact, you do not "Make Jesus" anything! He is the one who makes you and fashions you into his image!

Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin. If repentance is not evident, faith is non-existent.
 

360watt

Active Member
Site Supporter
What exactly is the difference? And what do you mean by "Life Long service?"

How do you explain the process of sanctification? It should go without saying that it is not instantaneous but progressive but nonetheless, it is something that is evident in the life of everyone who is a genuine believer!

Making Jesus "Lord" is not some sort of "added option" you can sign onto when you trust Christ. As a matter of fact, you do not "Make Jesus" anything! He is the one who makes you and fashions you into his image!

Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin. If repentance is not evident, faith is non-existent.
I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. I agree He will spur the believer on after salvation.
 

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
Well, there is more and less extreme versions of Calvinism and Arminianism.

I'd agree with receiving Jesus as Saviour. He doesn't become Lord of every part of your life straight away :)
The fact that Christians still fall into sin, and when they do, they are going against their Lord, doesn't mean that Jesus Christ is not their Lord. Paul, having been spoken to by Jesus Christ on the Damascus road, said, "Lord, what do you want me to do?" Was that just words? He showed that it wasn't by immediately obeying what Jesus told him to do.

Later, when the jailer at Philippi asked how to be saved, Paul said: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." (Acts 16:31)

The idea that it is possible to have Jesus as one's Saviour, without Him also being one's Lord is not something I see in the Scriptures.
 

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
Yeah no problem with that obviously..that's someone saying He is Lord God..rather than trying to MAKE Him Lord over every area of their life.

They are receiving salvation rather than making some kind of commitment to life long service that they will inevitably fail in.
Jesus Christ is Lord of all. I don't make Him Lord. When I sin, I disobey my Lord, but He is still my Lord - He doesn't become my Lord when I make Him such.
 

360watt

Active Member
Site Supporter
The fact that Christians still fall into sin, and when they do, they are going against their Lord, doesn't mean that Jesus Christ is not their Lord. Paul, having been spoken to by Jesus Christ on the Damascus road, said, "Lord, what do you want me to do?" Was that just words? He showed that it wasn't by immediately obeying what Jesus told him to do.

Later, when the jailer at Philippi asked how to be saved, Paul said: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." (Acts 16:31)

The idea that it is possible to have Jesus as one's Saviour, without Him also being one's Lord is not something I see in the Scriptures.

So the key thing here is He is obviously Lord and God in Himself.

It is whether we are making a behavioral promise at salvation, or receiving free salvation, because we are a lost sinner.

A lost person who is a sinner, can't 'turn from sin' as part of salvation, because they are dead in sin.
 

DaveXR650

Well-Known Member
So the key thing here is He is obviously Lord and God in Himself.

It is whether we are making a behavioral promise at salvation, or receiving free salvation, because we are a lost sinner.
I do understand that we cannot anticipate what living a Christian life is, and promise to do so - before coming to Christ. But I don't see how repentance, even at the most technical level of "change of mind", cannot include a resolution to leave or stop already known sin. And if there is no consciousness of any known sin I don't see how you could come to Christ for salvation. In other words, if you know you are a lost sinner - that knowledge requires that you understand you have done something worthy of making you a lost sinner and by definition you are unsatisfied with that situation. Is it possible that you might just decide to carry on in your sin? Well the answer to that is in Romans 6:1.
A lost person who is a sinner, can't 'turn from sin' as part of salvation, because they are dead in sin.
A Calvinist, many of whom believe that regeneration occurs before faith, would agree, but would then say that since salvation is all of God then such partial, no Lordship conversions are a logical impossibility, unless God is failing to save his elect. Baptists who don't go that far but do say the Holy Spirit is essential in coming to Christ I think can make the same claim. Those who think coming to Christ is a matter of free human choosing only must face the fact that the "decisions" will reflect that. So then they are left with "hopefully they will repent later" or "there is a such thing as a carnal Christian, who has Jesus in their heart but themselves still on the throne of their lives" and so on.
 

360watt

Active Member
Site Supporter
I do understand that we cannot anticipate what living a Christian life is, and promise to do so - before coming to Christ. But I don't see how repentance, even at the most technical level of "change of mind", cannot include a resolution to leave or stop already known sin. And if there is no consciousness of any known sin I don't see how you could come to Christ for salvation. In other words, if you know you are a lost sinner - that knowledge requires that you understand you have done something worthy of making you a lost sinner and by definition you are unsatisfied with that situation. Is it possible that you might just decide to carry on in your sin? Well the answer to that is in Romans 6:1.

A Calvinist, many of whom believe that regeneration occurs before faith, would agree, but would then say that since salvation is all of God then such partial, no Lordship conversions are a logical impossibility, unless God is failing to save his elect. Baptists who don't go that far but do say the Holy Spirit is essential in coming to Christ I think can make the same claim. Those who think coming to Christ is a matter of free human choosing only must face the fact that the "decisions" will reflect that. So then they are left with "hopefully they will repent later" or "there is a such thing as a carnal Christian, who has Jesus in their heart but themselves still on the throne of their lives" and so on.

I think we are on the same page. I pretty much agree with you.

To know you are a lost sinner does require consciousness of sin, knowing you are headed for hell.

The key part is whether you are putting yourself into the equation e.g. 'I now turn from my sin and believe in you'..seen in many tracts. Or 'I now commit my life to You '.

That is where I see the kind of behavioral contract coming in. But again, many people saying those words, don't actually mean a behavioral commitment, but mean they believe on Jesus Christ.

Here is the kind of words better suited:

Luke 18:13 KJV
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
it's not a guarantee a saved person won't go wayward.

BINGO! The predestined/foreknown/redeemed/born from above/saved child of God is capable of doing everything they've been told NOT to do in The Book. Perfectly capable of making shipwreck of the faith.
 
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