You’ve repeated a great deal of theology, but you still have not answered the single question I asked.
There is a difference between debating the
subject and debating the
person. One is honest; the other is evasive. I am addressing the text itself. You are avoiding it.
My question was simple and textual:
Where does Scripture state that the church began at the resurrection? Not infer it. Not construct it. Not assemble it from multiple doctrines. State it.
Everything you just posted is:
- your interpretation of Acts,
- your interpretation of Pentecost,
- your interpretation of the Spirit’s work,
- your interpretation of “keys,”
- your interpretation of “beginning,”
- your interpretation of regeneration.
None of those passages
say the church began at the resurrection.
They describe salvation, Spirit‑baptism, Gentile inclusion, apostolic ministry, and the expansion of the gospel, but
none of them state the church began at the resurrection.
You are answering a different question than the one I asked.
Let me restate it plainly:
What verse says the church began at the resurrection?
Acts 2 does not say it. Acts 10 does not say it. Acts 11 does not say it. Acts 15 does not say it. 1 Corinthians 12 does not say it. Ephesians 2 does not say it.
You are giving interpretations, not a text.
Christ said during His earthly ministry:
- called the apostles,
- gathered them,
- named them,
- and constituted them as the foundation stones (Eph. 2:20).
That is the first assembly under Christ’s authority.
Nothing in Scripture says:
So again, staying on the subject:
If Scripture states it, cite the verse. If Scripture does not state it, then it is not a biblical claim.
Time lines in the scriptures are very important. For instance the apostles, a position that is first associated with the earthly kingdom of Israel, along with the 70 prophets have a kingdom context in their being chosen. They were appointed to, and are going to, sit on twelve thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel in the kingdom age after the nation is regenerated. I have quoted those verses where Jesus said that to the apostles specifically.
This choosing of the apostles took place in Matthew 10. This is during the time that Jesus is preaching the gospel, the good news, the glad tidings of the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. This is the message to the nation, Judah. The King is in their midst. Lets look at the charge Jesus gave these men;
Mt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But
go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And
as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,
10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Likewise he chose 70 more kingdom officers in Luke 10. Consider what he said to them;
Lk 9:51 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, (to be crucified)
57 And it came to pass, that, as they went in the way, a certain man said unto him, Lord, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.
58 And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead:
but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
61 And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house.
62 And Jesus said unto him,
No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Lu 10:1 After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.
2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.
3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.
4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire.
Go not from house to house.
8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
10 But into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say,
11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
This is a gospel to a nation, not to individuals.
Let me give you some information, Anthony. God gives warnings for the numb and unbelieving but he does not condemn a man before he sins. This gospel to this nation from God is sincere and at this time they could have and should have repented and history would have been written much differently. The Lord is taking his creation to a specific end and he is wise enough that he can in his providence do it in spite of the opposition and unbelief of those he has chosen to use. Jesus really did desire that many would believe the gospel of the kingdom and they would pray for it but we know there were very few laborers and the kingdom and the King were rejected.
God is accomplishing the same results in this age, fashioning a bride for his son, but in a different way. Jesus said the marriage supper was ready and he bid Israel to come to the marriage supper and they would not come. But the rejection by this generation of Israel was not until Matthew 12 and the result was an unpardonable sin for those who led the charge. After this we have Jesus recorded as telling these same men he had sent to tell every Israelite to believe to now tell no man what he has said and done because the message was no longer to this nation at this time.
Matthew 16, which seems to be your proof text, records the transition from the gospel of the kingdom to telling these men that he is going to Jerusalem to be killed by those he came to save. They knew nothing about this though they had travelled and had preached with him for over 3 years,
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
21
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
The operative word in v 21 here is "began." This means he was not preaching this before.
I think you are mis-defining the church of Jesus Christ and it should concern you. Because of the nature of the church it could not exist until Jesus died. I will prove that in a future post by the word of God.
