DNA OF JESUS PART II

[Armchair Apologist]

So, are you saying women do not have a sin nature? Or that women cannot pass the sin nature on, it must be the man that passes the sin nature?

You asked why it was necessary, I gave you one possible explanation.

Peace to you

Yes, women have a sin nature! It was passed to them through Adam as all women are born of Adam right? Mary (the mother of Jesus) being born of Adam was therefore sinful as any other woman. The virgin birth took Adam out of the equation whereby Jesus was conceived and born without sin.

I can appreciate your explanation but I would assert that it was not necessary for the very same reason that the immaculate conception was not necessary.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

First of all, you don't know the basic life science.
Man's body has 46 chromosome and 44 common chromosome plus XY, resulting in 46 chromosome
Mary had 46 Chromosome and 44 common chromosome plus XX, resulting in 46 chromosome
If the ovum of Mary was used, 22 chromosome plus X should have been fertilized with the Sperm which had 22 chromosome plus Y, then the human embryo would have had 44 common chromosome plus XY.
Human ovum is designed to be fertilized only with human sperm. Who provided the sperm?
Now here is another question. When did the body of Jesus who is Eternal God start to exist?
You are separating the Divinity of Jesus from the Humanity which was condemned by Council of Ephesus in 431AD.
I don't prohibit such possibility but want to let you know even that idea isn't accepted by Catholics.
Now, the question is whether the new body and new brain made from the ovum of Mary can remember what happened eternity before the Creation? Can the brain of the new body formed by the egg of Mary and the new sperm remember the events with Abraham?
When did the Brain of Jesus start to exist?
This is the important question about your understanding of the Eternal Deity of Jesus.
When God created Adam in His likeness ( Gen 1:26-27), Whose likeness was used for molding Adam? Likeness of Holy Spirit? Likeness of God the Father?

Eliyahu

I had a "brain-fart" regarding the number of chromosomes of a human cell. Thank you for the clarification.

You are not making sense elsewhere either in this post or in your other response to me.

I am not separating Jesus's humanity from his divinity. They are inseparable yet not mixed one with the other. Rather than risk a charge of heresy due to my own inadequate explanation, I will defer to the Chalcedonian definition:

Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.

Exactly what do you mean by the "Brain" of Jesus? Being "Truly God," Jesus has the attribute of 'simplicity' meaning that he is a spiritual being not comprised of 'parts' and therefore has no "brain."

By his "brain" are you speaking of his consciousness or the essence of his being meaning his "soul?" Do we not as humans have an eternal soul and are therefore consciousness after death?

Are you trying to say that somehow Jesus was eternally existent in his humanity? Luke is quite clear (in the scripture I previously cited) that Jesus grew in wisdom and understanding as he came of age which is what one being "truly man" would naturally do so you tell me what was going on in the adolescent "brain" of Jesus?

 

[Aaron]

The virgin birth took Adam out of the equation whereby Jesus was conceived and born without sin.

That's a common but mistaken notion. Sin isn't a genetic thing. Christ is sinless because He is the uncorruptible God. Sin isn't something that is given, but something that is not given, and that thing is life. Mary could no more give life than Adam.

The Virgin birth was a sign, not a necessity.

 

[kyredneck]

The Virgin birth was a sign, not a necessity.

Excellent articulation!

 

[Eliyahu]

I had a "brain-fart" regarding the number of chromosomes of a human cell. Thank you for the clarification.

You are not making sense elsewhere either in this post or in your other response to me.

I am not separating Jesus's humanity from his divinity. They are inseparable yet not mixed one with the other. Rather than risk a charge of heresy due to my own inadequate explanation, I will defer to the Chalcedonian definition:

Exactly what do you mean by the "Brain" of Jesus? Being "Truly God," Jesus has the attribute of 'simplicity' meaning that he is a spiritual being not comprised of 'parts' and therefore has no "brain."//]

Brain of Jesus enabled Him to think, reason, remember what happened in the past. Jesus had eyes, ears, nose, and mouth, feet and hands. Jesus had the same body as Adam had before the Fall. Adam failed then Jesus came to this world in order to rescue the Races of Adam ( 1 Cor 15:45-47) and He completed His mission successfully when He cried Tetelesthai( John 19:30)
Jesus had the brain remembering the eternity ( Joh 17:5) remembering the time of Abraham ( Joh 8:56-58). Was that brain produced by Mary? or the Brain existed before Mary was born? That's the key question and is related to the Eternity of Jesus.
If you say, Jesus is Eternal but His body was not. Then His memory of the past eternal could be wrong( John 17:5)

By his "brain" are you speaking of his consciousness or the essence of his being meaning his "soul?" Do we not as humans have an eternal soul and are therefore consciousness after death?

Are you trying to say that somehow Jesus was eternally existent in his humanity? Luke is quite clear (in the scripture I previously cited) that Jesus grew in wisdom and understanding as he came of age which is what one being "truly man" would naturally do so you tell me what was going on in the adolescent "brain" of Jesus?//]

Soul is in the Blood ( Lev 17:11-14).
Brain is another matter as it is a part of Body.
Do you think the brain of Jesus at the time of Abraham was different from the brain of Jesus when He spoke to the Jews ( John 8:56-58) ? Do you know the meaning of < I AM> and the meaning of Omni-Presence not only by space-wise, but also by time-wise?
Do you know it was Jesus that wrestled with Jacob and gave the new name Israel to him? Read Genesis 32:24-30

Eliyahu

 

[David Lamb]

Brain of Jesus enabled Him to think, reason, remember what happened in the past. Jesus had eyes, ears, nose, and mouth, feet and hands. Jesus had the same body as Adam had before the Fall. Adam failed then Jesus came to this world in order to rescue the Races of Adam ( 1 Cor 15:45-47) and He completed His mission successfully when He cried Tetelesthai( John 19:30)
Jesus had the brain remembering the eternity ( Joh 17:5) remembering the time of Abraham ( Joh 8:56-58). Was that brain produced by Mary? or the Brain existed before Mary was born? That's the key question and is related to the Eternity of Jesus.
If you say, Jesus is Eternal but His body was not. Then His memory of the past eternal could be wrong( John 17:5)

Tell me, do you believe that God the Father has a physical brain? Surely not, as we are told in the Bible that He is spirit. Yet we read of God remembering. Just a few examples:

NKJV Jer 2:2 "Go and cry in the hearing of Jerusalem, saying, 'Thus says the LORD: "I remember you, The kindness of your youth, The love of your betrothal, When you went after Me in the wilderness, In a land not sown.

Hos 7:2 They do not consider in their hearts That I remember all their wickedness; Now their own deeds have surrounded them; They are before My face.

Lev 26:45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.' "

Jesus Christ is fully God, so, like the Father, He didn't need a physical brain in order to remember things from before His incarnation. John 17:5 is not prrof that He had a physical brain before His incarnation:

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

Soul is in the Blood ( Lev 17:11-14).
Brain is another matter as it is a part of Body.
Do you think the brain of Jesus at the time of Abraham was different from the brain of Jesus when He spoke to the Jews ( John 8:56-58) ? Do you know the meaning of < I AM> and the meaning of Omni-Presence not only by space-wise, but also by time-wise?
Do you know it was Jesus that wrestled with Jacob and gave the new name Israel to him? Read Genesis 32:24-30

The preincarnate Son of God had no physical parts before His incarnation, although in Christophanies, He did appear in physical form But if you say that must mean He had a physical body before the incarnation, do you also believe that the Holy Spirit exists in heaven in a physical form like a dove? After all, we read:

Luk 3:22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased."

Eliyahu

 

[canadyjd]

To say that Mary was born without the stain of Adam's sin does not imply that she still did not
sin, as does any human. Catholics call Adam's sin as "Original Sin", and because Mary was born
without this stain, Catholics say Mary lived a sinless life.

I do understand Catholics believe Mary lived a sinless life. I find that problematic.

IMO, she was the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ, and therefore was worthy in God's eyes. That's
all I need to know.

She was chosen by God to complete His purpose. There was nothing within her that made her more worthy than any other woman.

Just as Abraham was chosen for God’s purpose while living in a home where idols were worshipped.

Just as Moses was chosen while living in exile as a murderer.

Just as Paul was chosen while he hunted Christian to persecute them to the death

God didn’t look upon the earth to find someone “worthy”. He chosen someone unworthy and transformed their lives by intervening.

The rest is for theologians to endlessly haggle over, but I believe the only conclusion they could come
to would be strictly presumptuous.

Jesus is the “second Adam”. Just as the first Adam was formed without anyone’s DNA, without a biological genealogy, so too the second Adam, imo.

Mary was chosen and obeyed God. She was greatly favored by God to be given this purpose in His plan.

She was no more sinless than Abraham, Moses, David or Paul.

The “Mary was sinless” error has led to the great error of “Co-Redeemer”.

Peace to you

 

[Eliyahu]

Tell me, do you believe that God the Father has a physical brain? Surely not, as we are told in the Bible that He is spirit. Yet we read of God remembering. Just a few examples:

NKJV Jer 2:2 "Go and cry in the hearing of Jerusalem, saying, 'Thus says the LORD: "I remember you, The kindness of your youth, The love of your betrothal, When you went after Me in the wilderness, In a land not sown.

Hos 7:2 They do not consider in their hearts That I remember all their wickedness; Now their own deeds have surrounded them; They are before My face.

Lev 26:45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.' "

Jesus Christ is fully God, so, like the Father, He didn't need a physical brain in order to remember things from before His incarnation. John 17:5 is not prrof that He had a physical brain before His incarnation:

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.



The preincarnate Son of God had no physical parts before His incarnation, although in Christophanies, He did appear in physical form But if you say that must mean He had a physical body before the incarnation, do you also believe that the Holy Spirit exists in heaven in a physical form like a dove? After all, we read:

Luk 3:22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased."

It's a good and valid argument.
Do you remember Jehovah appeared to Abraham and He ate the beef meal cooked by Abraham?
Genesis 18:1-8
18 And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:

5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.

7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.

8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.>>>>>>>>

Did God eat the beef meal cooked by Abraham without His body?
Which of Godheads ate the meal there?

Do you remember Jacob wrestled with the God? Read Genesis 32:24-30
There God had a body, which Godhead wrestled with Jacob? If God the Father is a Spirit?

We can continue after your answer.

Eliyahu

 

[Aaron]

Excellent articulation!

Thanx.

 

[Aaron]

Brain of Jesus enabled Him to think, reason, remember what happened in the past. Jesus had eyes, ears, nose, and mouth, feet and hands. Jesus had the same body as Adam had before the Fall. Adam failed then Jesus came to this world in order to rescue the Races of Adam ( 1 Cor 15:45-47) and He completed His mission successfully when He cried Tetelesthai( John 19:30)
Jesus had the brain remembering the eternity ( Joh 17:5) remembering the time of Abraham ( Joh 8:56-58). Was that brain produced by Mary? or the Brain existed before Mary was born? That's the key question and is related to the Eternity of Jesus.
If you say, Jesus is Eternal but His body was not. Then His memory of the past eternal could be wrong( John 17:5)

Soul is in the Blood ( Lev 17:11-14).
Brain is another matter as it is a part of Body.
Do you think the brain of Jesus at the time of Abraham was different from the brain of Jesus when He spoke to the Jews ( John 8:56-58) ? Do you know the meaning of < I AM> and the meaning of Omni-Presence not only by space-wise, but also by time-wise?
Do you know it was Jesus that wrestled with Jacob and gave the new name Israel to him? Read Genesis 32:24-30

Eliyahu

Do you think that those who have passed have no consciousness, that is, soul sleep? Or do they?

If they have consciousness and intelligence in the presence of Christ, which is what to be absent in the body means for a Christian, then the brain is not the seat of conciousness, as their brains have died, and, in the vast majority of cases, have turned to dust.

 

[Armchair Apologist]

Tell me, do you believe that God the Father has a physical brain? Surely not, as we are told in the Bible that He is spirit. Yet we read of God remembering. Just a few examples:

NKJV Jer 2:2 "Go and cry in the hearing of Jerusalem, saying, 'Thus says the LORD: "I remember you, The kindness of your youth, The love of your betrothal, When you went after Me in the wilderness, In a land not sown.

Hos 7:2 They do not consider in their hearts That I remember all their wickedness; Now their own deeds have surrounded them; They are before My face.

Lev 26:45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.' "

Jesus Christ is fully God, so, like the Father, He didn't need a physical brain in order to remember things from before His incarnation. John 17:5 is not prrof that He had a physical brain before His incarnation:

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.



The preincarnate Son of God had no physical parts before His incarnation, although in Christophanies, He did appear in physical form But if you say that must mean He had a physical body before the incarnation, do you also believe that the Holy Spirit exists in heaven in a physical form like a dove? After all, we read:

Luk 3:22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased."

After my few interactions, I am doubting that I can take this person seriously. Some times you need to know when it is time to just walk away.

 

[Eliyahu]

Do you think that those who have passed have no consciousness, that is, soul sleep? Or do they?

If they have consciousness and intelligence in the presence of Christ, which is what to be absent in the body means for a Christian, then the brain is not the seat of conciousness, as their brains have died, and, in the vast majority of cases, have turned to dust.

It's a certain good comparison between the issue of Jesus memory of the eternity and the soul sleep.
In case of Soul Sleep, the soul must have a very limited capacity of the memory if any, as the soul is sleeping or in dormant status.
But in case of Jesus, He is the God the Son, and there is no death in Him or in His life except the Crucifixion throughout Eternity.
Jesus said < Before Abraham WAS, I AM> which means Jesus is Omni-Present in Time realm, not only Space-wise.
Jesus said < I AM>, which means He is the same Jesus whose days were anticipated by Abraham and Abraham rejoiced eventually His days. In other words, Jesus speaking to the Jews in John 8:56-58 was the same Jesus who met Abraham. I believe
Jesus was talking about Genesis 18:1-8 where Jehovah ate the veal meat, bread, cake, milk, butter, and got His feet washed with water. Jehovah had a body and Jesus remembered that! He exchanged the conversation with Sarah! ( Genesis 18:15-16)
Now we look at Mt 3:3
3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Who is the voice? John the Baptist
Isiah 40:3
3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

Who is the LORD in Isaiah 40:3? Jehovah
Who is the Lord in Mt 3:3? Jesus
Matthew quoted Jehovah as Jesus
In Genesis 18:1-16, Jehovah got his feet washed and ate the meal and exchanged the conversation with Abraham and Sarah

Jesus said in John 8:
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

I believe Jehovah means 3 cases 1) God the Father 2) God the Son Jesus 3) the whole Trinity of Godheads.
In case any flesh or body is concerned, Jehovah meant Jesus.
Moses knew Jehovah face to face( Deut 24:10). Which one of the Godheads spoke with Moses?
Hebrews 11:
24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; 25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

How many Christ does God or do we have? Only One, Jesus Christ. Moses worked for Christ. Where is it in the Bible?
John Nelson Darby said:
To me, it is as clear as the sun at noon time that Jesus Christ is the Jehovah of the Old Testament.
To me, the same as well.
So, my conclusion is that Jesus had a body to eat and the feet to get washed, mouth, eyes, ears physically, not the simulacrum even before His coming into this world by Incarnation.
This is quite different from Soul of the dead person which is dormant until the resurrection.
Jesus had a body before His coming into this world thru Mary.

Eliyahu