Silverhair
Well-Known Member
DJT wants Canada to be the 51st state but gets upset when we say no thanks we would rather work with the EU.
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Is this Trump's WORST NIGHTMARE
- Thread starter Silverhair
- Start date
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Alberta has a considerable population that have moved to become their own country. I cannot remember the numbers but if they did separate from Canada, they would immediately be in the top five wealthiest countries. They do a majority of the work for Canada’s economy. I’ve not heard what that would mean for Canada’s economy, but you can be sure that Ottawa is not very interested in the idea. I’m also not sure what has become of this idea. It is not reported on much and as life gets busy, I have not kept after it. I also have not talked to my friends who are working in the Alberta oil industry for a little bit. But when I last did, the idea of independence from Ottawa was a very real and potentially favorable idea for Alberta. I don’t say that it means that they would be the 51st state. What I have heard is that they are looking at independence from Ottawa rather than switching countries. But I know several Canadians who either would prefer to be living in the States or who, believe it or not, have begun to think that President Trump has been doing some good things this last term. I’m not trying to start any political war here. I’m just saying that there are some reasonable people who can look objectively at what the policies of his administration have done and recognized, beyond the abrasive presentation, what is actually good about what has been accomplished. Whether that is the presentation by the President or presentation of the President by the media I cannot determine for anyone.
I’m not saying that these Canadians are not patriotic. Some people see the writing on the wall sooner than others.
Something like this happened with Quebec a while back and they got “paid off” if you will. The squeaky wheel got the grease.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Short answer NO.
There are some people in Alberta that want to separate, about 15-20 %, from Canada but even they do not want to be part of the US.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
That is not true of all.
There are some people who would. Not nearly enough to say “Alberta wants” but enough to be noticed. And America hating, Trump hating Canadians can be irritated by their existence, but they cannot deny the existence of Canadians who want to be Americans if only because the true north strong and free struggles to be true, strong, and free where it matters.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
The idea of separation has been around for some time here in Alberta as we see that Ottawa does not treat the west as it does Quebec and Ontario.
The leave side tells us that it is all sunshine and roses while the stay side says it is all doom and gloom. The truth is somewhere in the middle I would suspect.
People should look at what happened in Quebec after their first attempt to separate, loss of jobs and people. There economy flatlined and they needed Ottawa to save them. Granted we do have major resources that the world wants but then again we are landlocked.
Does the West have some real issues with the East? Sure. But separation just brings bigger problems IMO.
But back to the OP. President Trump seems to be upset that Canada is not falling in line with His ideas. Now that Canada is turning away from the US he just makes more silly threats. He keeps saying the US needs nothing from Canada and we are ripping off the US so you would think he would be happy to see Canada stop trading with them.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Actually when you ask them even the majority of the leave people do not want to be part of the US.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
I don’t deny that.
I know it very well.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Ottawa may not govern properly but it is still much better than what we see happening in the US.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Because of the way that it is reported with President Trump in the spotlight, most Americans, I surmise, don’t realize that it is not a discussion of switching to the States. I think President Trump noticed and made the offer to transfer. That is what has taken the spotlight instead of separation movement.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Well, we know where you stand.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
The reality is that under Trudeau we saw the county splitting because of his green ideas. He was just a little boy playing at being a leader.
Carney has looked at the real world as made adult choices. We need to move away from the US. Trade with them but on our terms not theirs.
We have what the US and the world needs.
Carney has looked at the real world as made adult choices. We need to move away from the US. Trade with them but on our terms not theirs.
We have what the US and the world needs.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
The idea of separation is because of the issues with Ottawa. Moving away from the US has been a country wide movement. Ottawa has chosen to look to the world for trading partners that understand that agreements are not signed in pencil.
What is stopping the separation movement is the fact that Carney has made moves toward the west as he sees that including the strengths of the west makes the whole country stronger.
While the US says Canada has nothing they want the world say Canada has just what they want.
So again I ask why is President Trump so upset that Canada and the EU are getting closer in trade? Why make silly threats that he knows or should know he could not do and have the US survive.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Proud Canadian.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
You are making the same nonsensical statements as Trump's tweets.
*REALITY CHECK*
The US and Canadian economies are so interconnected, so large and so dependent upon each other that talk of "not trading" is nonsensical.
- For CANADA: 20% of the WORLD economy is a truck drive across the longest undefended border in the world ... do you seriously think you can compete more competitively SHIPPING your natural resources to ASIA and EUROPE? [nonsense]
- For the US: Our strategic defense and access to Arctic resources depends on continued cooperation with the neighbor across the "longest undefended border in the world". History has proven Canada to be a staggeringly reliable ally in times of war (our strategic needs and goals naturally align ... neither country wants North America attacked). Our biggest problem with Canadian natural resources is the appetite of the US economy exceeds the output of Canada ... so the US is forced to import by ship.
The current "CRISIS" is 80% driven by media hype. Canadian and American farmers and companies want to continue to feed their families ... which means buying and selling like they always have. The other 20% is both nations have been "blessed" with the "armpit" of political leadership and are being mismanaged ... exactly as the PEOPLE keep voting.
Both leaders will pass into history and their words and deeds will be unremembered. They are not "giants" of their generation. They are just LOUD (making them hard to ignore).
As far as "Canada becoming a State" ... we tried that in the French-Indian War. Canada won and preserved its independence (as a British colony). I see no real indication that they have changed their mind [It was just a remark to excite the press that pointed to SOME Canadians growing discontent with their "status quo" ... which is a Canadian 'Civil War' issue rather than a 'US Statehood' issue.]
Armchair Apologist
Well-Known Member
President Trump has said and done some really great things as POTUS but one thing in which he is a dismal failure is in knowing when to keep his mouth shut!
I really wish he would shut his yap concerning the "Gulf of America" and "Lake America," making Canada the "51st State," taking over Greenland, and so forth! I know that the MSM exaggerates such issues in their attempts to discredit and make Trump look bad at every possible opportunity but President Trump is not making it easy for his supporters to come to his defense! There are certain underlying issues which are critical to the security of our nation but I believe that such could be handled in a much more civil and diplomatic manner than they currently are. It is clear that the radical left is determined to destroy any and every good thing that made this country great but it seems that the "MAGA" crowd is only enabling and empowering them to do so!
We are a nation that desperately needs the LORD!
I really wish he would shut his yap concerning the "Gulf of America" and "Lake America," making Canada the "51st State," taking over Greenland, and so forth! I know that the MSM exaggerates such issues in their attempts to discredit and make Trump look bad at every possible opportunity but President Trump is not making it easy for his supporters to come to his defense! There are certain underlying issues which are critical to the security of our nation but I believe that such could be handled in a much more civil and diplomatic manner than they currently are. It is clear that the radical left is determined to destroy any and every good thing that made this country great but it seems that the "MAGA" crowd is only enabling and empowering them to do so!
We are a nation that desperately needs the LORD!
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I agree that our economies are interconnected and we will continue to trade as it is good for both nations. The question is why does Trum* get upset when we choose to trade with other nations?
Well ASIA and EUROPE seem to think we can compete as they are the ones coming to us to get us to ship those natural resources to them. Since the US has told the world they do not need what Canada has the world has said then they will take it. Just good business.
The biggest problem that we in Canada see with the US is that they do not want us to trade with anyone else as then the cost to the US will go up as more people compete for the same resource.
I understand that the US wants to look out for itself but then again Canada has to do the same.
From here we see the US as becoming less reliable so we are moving in the direction we are.
The reality is the Trum* likes his tariffs and those extra costs are now landing on the American public. I understand why Ottawa imposed tariffs but I do not agree with them.
Actually many of the things that Carney is doing will have lasting effects. Opening trade to other nations and becoming less dependent on the US will be good for Canada in the long run.
If Canada does become an associate member of the EU he will be remembered for that, whether it turns out to be good or bad.
What has gotten Canadians riled up is the disrespect that we see coming from the Trum* administration and much of your media.
But this to will pass and our two countries will continue to trade. What will take longer is for the trust to be restored.
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
As is the norm it is the loud that get the attention.
The US has it's problems with the Trump admin and here in Alberta we have the separatists. Both are loud and make silly claims the do not stand in the light of day.
Cooler heads will prevail in the end.
I doubt Trump wants Canada to be the 51st state. Reading comments from his administration, none of then believe he wants Canada. Reading Trump's own comments I doubt he does.
Trump says things to create a reaction. He barks loudly. Had you ever read Trump's own words about negotiation you would have known this.
His philosophy (he has repeatedly said and written) is to demand something outlandish to increase the chances of getting more than you expected.
An example would buying a car with a good purchase of $50,000 but priced $60,000. You give them a purchase price you know they will not (cannot) meet. You say "$30,000" and go up slowly. You end up paying $45,000. You "win".
Trump is all bark. This has served well in many (actually most) cases. It did not with Iran.
Only a Canadian would think Trump (or the US) wants Canada as the 51st state.
The problem with the EU (and Canada) is even combined they are not a formidable power. Economicly they are significant but collectively they are not capable of protecting themselves.
The EU is too insignificant a power. I enjoyed living in Europe but they are in decline. So is the US, but not to their level...yet.