Confusion over "Called?"

[Martin Marprelate]

Test what I post, see if it actually presents scriptural truth, with specific references and common sense.

Will do. Thanks for the clarification.

@Kai,
You should certainly do that.

 

[Van]

Great idea!

Hang on a moment! When did these [those?] people beome "born anew believers"? Before or after they had been "predestined"? Obviously before because otherwise they couldn't have been predestined! Did God call "born anew believers" or sinners? Obviously sinners because He tells us in Matt. 9:13. "I did not come to call [Greek, phoneo] the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Was Levi (Luke 5:27-32) a born-again believer or a sinner at the point that the Lord Jesus called him? Read the passage! He was patently a sinner, '...Called [Greek, phoneo] ... out of darkness into His marvellous light' (1 Peter 2:9). @Van may think that 'set apart' is a good word for kaleo, but it isn't! A call requires a response, and Levi responded: 'So he rose up, left all and followed Him.'

So those who are called already believers, already redeemed and already born anew as brothers and sisters of Christ are then "set apart." All this before they were called???!!! How does that square with Levi's experience?

And how does this square with Isaiah 65:12? 'Because, when I called, you did not answer; when I spoke you did not hear, but did evil before My eyes, and chose that in which I do not delight.'

1) I thought I made clear, the Redemption plan, formulated before creation, thus before anyone was redeemed, included the plan that those to be redeemed would then be predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, as born anew siblings, children of God.

2) The rest of your post addresses a fiction of your own creation, thus obfuscation. For example to be set apart is God's unilateral choice and action.

 

[Van]

Post #40 mentioned Matthew 9:13, so let's consider the verse:

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“Now go and learn what this means: ‘I DESIRE COMPASSION, RATHER THAN SACRIFICE,’ for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”​

"Call" is a translation of Kaleo, G2564. (Perhaps "phoneo" is a different transliteration spelling, I do not know.) And the TR has the phrase "to repentance, with "to" translating the preposition "eis" (into) so there is a faint suggestion the meaning of "call" might be set apart. However, my view is that the intended meaning is invite. Jesus is telling the lost to take the action to repent and believe.

 

[Van]

Here is another verse to consider, Colossians 3:15:

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Let the peace of Christ, to which you were indeed called in one body, rule in your hearts; and be thankful. ​

I believe the intended meaning of "Kaleo" (translated as called) is "set apart.

Here is my interpretive translation:
Let the peace of Christ, into which you were set apart, rule in your hearts, indeed as in one family, and be thankful.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

1) I thought I made clear, the Redemption plan, formulated before creation, thus before anyone was redeemed, included the plan that those to be redeemed would then be predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, as born anew siblings, children of God.

You are still all over the place. Those predestined to believe would then be predestined???

2) The rest of your post addresses a fiction of your own creation, thus obfuscation.

Well at least @Kai knows whih one of us is aggressive and insulting.

For example to be set apart is God's unilateral choice and action.

You are correct (it had to happen sooner or later). We'll make a good Calvinist of you yet.

 

[Van]

You are still all over the place. Those predestined to believe would then be predestined???

Well at least @Kai knows whih one of us is aggressive and insulting.

You are correct (it had to happen sooner or later). We'll make a good Calvinist of you yet.

My view makes perfect sense. Your denial, "you are still all over the place" is just obfuscation.

No one said other than you, anyone was predestined to believe. Scripture says they were predestined to be conformed when they were redeemed.

 

[Van]

Consider 1 Thessalonians 4:7:

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For God has not called us for impurity, but in sanctification. (NASB)

"Called" is another example, in my opinion, of a poor translation of "Kaleo G2564), Here the meaning is "set apart."

Interpretive translation:

For God has not set us apart for impurity but in holiness.

 

[Van]

In post #28, I indicated 2 Thessalonians 2:14 should be translated as "set apart." Upon reconsideration, I was mistaken, the intended meaning from the context seems to be invited, as we were all "invited" through the gospel. My Bad.