When was creation?

[Salty]

1) Ussher Chronology of 4004 B.C as the date for the creation of the world, (James Ussher - 4 January 1581 – 21 March 1656)
2) Anderson belief from his own calculation - Per Wiki - 4234 BC (Steve Anderson b-July 24, 1981 (age 45) - & has no theological training
3) The current Jewish year is 5787, which began at sunset on September 11, 2026, and will end at sunset on October 1, 2027.
The Jewish calendar is based on the Anno Mundi system, counting years from the biblical creation date.


Open for discussion

 

[Armchair Apologist]

In the beginning.

 

[Mike B]

In the beginning.

Yep...that's a good start...

 

[canadyjd]

No one knows the exact date for certain. People weren’t really keeping track of the passage of time like we do today.

Peace to you

 

[Armchair Apologist]

I know we have Ussher's dating and I believe this is what was largely employed in the Reese Chronological Bible I have in my library. If I were to make calculations of my own, I could use the Genealogies where you could make such calculations (which I have done) but are these Genealogies complete and exhaustive in which we can calculate the exact time between the beginning of Creation to the flood and from the flood to the time of Abraham? What about Cainan being inserted between Arphachshad and Eber in the Septuagint and showing up in Luke's genealogy?

I would not take such a variable and say that the universe may actually be "billions" of years old but I would also not be adamant or dogmatic about the universe being created in 4004 BC. My personal guestimate would be that if the genealogies as recorded were actually truncated, I would say that it may push creation back to 10,000 BC but hardly any longer than that. What is the earliest historical record? I believe the Sumerians in the Fertile Crescent would be the beginning of what we would consider to be recorded history (and is also consistent with the scriptures) so what do secular sources say marks the origin of this culture? Pre-history is anyone's "crap-shoot" but we have the genealogy in Genesis 5 if we wish to use this to determine the timespan between the creation and the flood. The genealogy throughout Genesis takes you all the way to the death of Joseph so this puts you to time of Israel's captivity in Egypt.

 

[Van]

This topic has been recycled many times. We have posters suggesting the YEC view, creation of every material or physical thing occurred less than 7000 years ago. This based on dating from Adam to the present, and assuming the days of creation were 24 hour days.

Then we have the OEC view, with the days of creation being of indeterminate duration, and the first human existing tens of thousands of years ago.

Scripture says we were not there and we do not know. I support that view. But I do believe, that the first humans were created less than 7000 years ago. Yes, I know published "science" says they have artifacts indicating abstract thinking that can be reliably dated to tens of thousands of years ago. But all the claims seem to boil down to "trust me on this, I have credentials such as a doctorate. Fiddlesticks!!

 

[searchingtruths]

1) Ussher Chronology of 4004 B.C as the date for the creation of the world, (James Ussher - 4 January 1581 – 21 March 1656)
2) Anderson belief from his own calculation - Per Wiki - 4234 BC (Steve Anderson b-July 24, 1981 (age 45) - & has no theological training
3) The current Jewish year is 5787, which began at sunset on September 11, 2026, and will end at sunset on October 1, 2027.
The Jewish calendar is based on the Anno Mundi system, counting years from the biblical creation date.


Open for discussion

I am what they call a old Earth creationist

I believe the universe is billions of years old.

I believe the Earth is a good 4 plus billion years old.

I believe God created man anywhere from 60 to 100,000 plus years ago.

I believe it was 6000 years ago when Adam sinned _ thus taking away access to the Tree of Life - who's healing is in the leaves and fruit thereof. Taking away the form of immortality man had and the onset of decay and death.

Genesis 3:22 tells us when God put Adam out he did so Adam would not eat of the Tree of Life and live forever.

The Minister's teach that Adam never ate from the Tree of Life, because the Bible never said he did, that is an assumption. God gave him access to the tree so why wouldn't he eat from it. There are quite a few assumptions made by man that is not written in scripture as fact.

I believe that the translators mistranslated the Hebrew word Yom which can also mean a period in time / a point in time / a span of time / and to support their views of a literal 6 day creation it would have to be viewed as a 24-hour period.

godrules.net/library/strongs2a/heb3117.htm https://share.google/zhZjFx7D4nWomQBan


Primary Definitions of Yom

• Daytime Hours: The light portion of a 24-hour cycle, contrasting with the dark night (e.g., Genesis 1:5).
• 24-Hour Day: A full rotation consisting of an evening and a morning, often designated when paired with a numerical sequence or time markers (e.g., Genesis 1-2).
• Sunrise to Sunset: The natural daylight period of a single calendar day.
• Sunset to Sunset: The traditional Hebrew tracking of a full day from one evening to the next.
• A Point in Time: A specific, singular moment or "that day" (e.g., bayom or "on the day that").
• An Unspecified Period or Age: A general span of time, similar to English expressions like "in my grandfather's day" or "the days of the dinosaurs" (e.g., Genesis 2:4).
• A Year or Years: Used in the plural (yamim) to denote a long duration or the passage of years (e.g., "he lived many days").
• Eschatological Era: A significant historical or prophetic epoch, such as the "Day of the Lord" (Yom Adonai) representing a time of divine judgment.

 

[Ben1445]

I am what they call a old Earth creationist

I believe the universe is billions of years old.

I believe the Earth is a good 4 plus billion years old.

I believe God created man anywhere from 60 to 100,000 plus years ago.

I believe it was 6000 years ago when Adam sinned _ thus taking away access to the Tree of Life - who's healing is in the leaves and fruit thereof. Taking away the form of immortality man had and the onset of decay and death.

Genesis 3:22 tells us when God put Adam out he did so Adam would not eat of the Tree of Life and live forever.

The Minister's teach that Adam never ate from the Tree of Life, because the Bible never said he did, that is an assumption. God gave him access to the tree so why wouldn't he eat from it. There are quite a few assumptions made by man that is not written in scripture as fact.

I believe that the translators mistranslated the Hebrew word Yom which can also mean a period in time / a point in time / a span of time / and to support their views of a literal 6 day creation it would have to be viewed as a 24-hour period.

godrules.net/library/strongs2a/heb3117.htm https://share.google/zhZjFx7D4nWomQBan


Primary Definitions of Yom

• Daytime Hours: The light portion of a 24-hour cycle, contrasting with the dark night (e.g., Genesis 1:5).
• 24-Hour Day: A full rotation consisting of an evening and a morning, often designated when paired with a numerical sequence or time markers (e.g., Genesis 1-2).
• Sunrise to Sunset: The natural daylight period of a single calendar day.
• Sunset to Sunset: The traditional Hebrew tracking of a full day from one evening to the next.
• A Point in Time: A specific, singular moment or "that day" (e.g., bayom or "on the day that").
• An Unspecified Period or Age: A general span of time, similar to English expressions like "in my grandfather's day" or "the days of the dinosaurs" (e.g., Genesis 2:4).
• A Year or Years: Used in the plural (yamim) to denote a long duration or the passage of years (e.g., "he lived many days").
• Eschatological Era: A significant historical or prophetic epoch, such as the "Day of the Lord" (Yom Adonai) representing a time of divine judgment.

So Adam lived about 100,000 plus years without multiplying like God commanded. The record of Scripture makes no mention of children born before the fall. That is a bit of a big detail to leave out unless you’re saying Adam waited till he sinned to start obeying God.

Your version of OEC doesn’t add up IMO.

 

[searchingtruths]

So Adam lived about 100,000 plus years without multiplying like God commanded. The record of Scripture makes no mention of children born before the fall. That is a bit of a big detail to leave out unless you’re saying Adam waited till he sinned to start obeying God.

Your version of OEC doesn’t add up IMO.

There is a lot of things that the Bible did not mention in the beginning.

I believe Adam had many many children and his children had many many children and so forth and spread out to other lands before his fall..... The first commandment of God * before the fall of Adam* was to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the Earth and I believe he did just that.

For me my way of viewing the beginning adds up perfectly - nor do I expect or ask anyone else to have my and those who believe as I do the same views.

The Bible only has three chapters written before the fall of Adam all other books and their chapters are after the fall of Adam as warning to All The offspring of Adam after his sin _ the consequences of disobedience and the judgment that has came upon the human species of Earth...... The Bible is based on after the fall of Adam not before.

The majority of Ministers teach that Cain and Abel were the first and ONLY two children of Adam and Eve because no other children were mentioned - tell me who were the people God told not to slay Cain? ........ In order for that to occur Adam and Eve had to have had many more children before Seth, since Seth was the third one mentioned ....... Then there was the Land of Nod - who named it the Land of Nod, why did it even have a name? Lands were named after the person who settled it in those days.

14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

If there were no other people around other than his mother and father why would Cain even think that someone would find him and kill him _ that he was a fugitive you can't run and hide from God but you can from people.

 

[Ben1445]

There is a lot of things that the Bible did not mention in the beginning.

I believe Adam had many many children and his children had many many children and so forth and spread out to other lands before his fall..... The first commandment of God * before the fall of Adam* was to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the Earth and I believe he did just that.

For me my way of viewing the beginning adds up perfectly - nor do I expect or ask anyone else to have my and those who believe as I do the same views.

The Bible only has three chapters written before the fall of Adam all other books and their chapters are after the fall of Adam as warning to All The offspring of Adam after his sin _ the consequences of disobedience and the judgment that has came upon the human species of Earth...... The Bible is based on after the fall of Adam not before.

The trouble with this doctrine is when Adam sinned, Scripture says death passed upon all men. God would be judging the children for the sins of their father had they been removed from the garden with Adam. Death on those who had not sinned would be unjust judgement. But if God said that death came on all men when some of Adam’s children were not judged, that makes God a liar

The majority of Ministers teach

I’ve never participated in the poll where you are gathering your data. I suspect that the majority of ministers haven’t been surveyed.

that Cain and Abel were the first and ONLY two children of Adam and Eve because no other children were mentioned - tell me who were the people God told not to slay Cain? ........ In order for that to occur Adam and Eve had to have had many more children before Seth, since Seth was the third one mentioned ....... Then there was the Land of Nod - who named it the Land of Nod, why did it even have a name? Lands were named after the person who settled it in those days.

I’ve never heard anyone teach that Cain and Abel were the only two children that they had. Where Cain got his wife and where the rest of the world’s population is obviously from Adam. But you cannot say it is before the fall just because “most ministers” can’t find where they are mentioned. I don’t see anything wrong with saying that Cain and Abel were the first two boys and Seth was the third. You don’t like to hear that because you believe Adam had innocent children that were either left in the garden or judged without sin. Please tell me which.

14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

If there were no other people around other than his mother and father why would Cain even think that someone would find him and kill him _ that he was a fugitive you can't run and hide from God but you can from people.

You haven’t said anything that proves children were born in the Garden for 100,000 years.

You are guilty of excluding the time when sinners who would be likely to kill Cain would have been born.
Your logic fails the exact way that you claim “most” everyone else’s does.

And Cain clearly knew that people are born and expected more people would be born.

What you have missed is that time was created before man and Adam even living in the garden was 939 years old and not over 100,000.
But if you write a movie, it will probably sell like the da Vinci Code.

 

[searchingtruths]

The trouble with this doctrine is when Adam sinned, Scripture says death passed upon all men. God would be judging the children for the sins of their father had they been removed from the garden with Adam. Death on those who had not sinned would be unjust judgement. But if God said that death came on all men when some of Adam’s children were not judged, that makes God a liar

Yes after seeing death passed upon all men which supports Genesis 3:22 - which supports Adam had a form of the immortality before he sinned - and one cannot say as an absolute how old Adam was when he sinned. Everybody from the loins of Adam is under death - I see no problem.

I’ve never participated in the poll where you are gathering your data. I suspect that the majority of ministers haven’t been surveyed.

There is no pole

I’ve never heard anyone teach that Cain and Abel were the only two children that they had. Where Cain got his wife and where the rest of the world’s population is obviously from Adam. But you cannot say it is before the fall just because “most ministers” can’t find where they are mentioned. I don’t see anything wrong with saying that Cain and Abel were the first two boys and Seth was the third. You don’t like to hear that because you believe Adam had innocent children that were either left in the garden or judged without sin. Please tell me which.

As I said the *majority* of ministers teach Cain and Abel were the only two children yet none of them have been able to explain where are the people come from. Putting names out and putting people to ridicule, I will not do. The good is they don't advertise.

You haven’t said anything that proves children were born in the Garden for 100,000 years.

Not trying to prove anything I gave you what I believe not asking you to believe or accept as I've already stated.

You are guilty of excluding the time when sinners who would be likely to kill Cain would have been born.
Your logic fails the exact way that you claim “most” everyone else’s does.

I am not guilty _ Cain said it in the present tense speaking of the people not of people yet to be born and God said it in the past tense which people could do a hour, a day, a week, or a month after.

And Cain clearly knew that people are born and expected more people would be born.

Cain has no immediate fear of people who were to be born, as it is written he spoke in present tense.

What you have missed is that time was created before man and Adam even living in the garden was 939 years old and not over 100,000.
But if you write a movie, it will probably sell like the da Vinci Code.

No I have not missed that time was created before man - time was created on the 4th day....... The beast (dinosaurs and such) the cattle ( what we see today) and God forming man himself was created on the sixth day....... [A day to the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day]. That is where the Tree of Life came in which gave man a form of immortality, instant healing referring back to Genesis 3:22 and referring to the Future in Revelation where there will be a tree of life on each side of the river giving 12 different fruits each month for the healing of the Nations - when that tree will be restored.

The first separation of the church was because of different views in theology in the second and third century _ and _ the churches have continually separated to the point of today where there are thousands of denominations..... Believe in our Father God, belief in the Lord God Yeshua and obeying the Ten Commandments that God gave to mankind is what matters. How old the Earth is how old Adam was is of little importance, just something to talk about.

Thank you

For centuries some ministers believed in an old Earth.

Many top advocates of Biblical authority accept an old Earth as completely compatible with Scripture

Can one believe in the authority of the Bible and also believe that Earth is on the order of a few billion years old? Are Christians who accept an old Earth “compromisers” who deny obvi…

geochristian.com

A movie ha ha, that would have a lot of people wondering and explain a lot of science.

 

[searchingtruths]

The trouble with this doctrine is when Adam sinned, Scripture says death passed upon all men. God would be judging the children for the sins of their father had they been removed from the garden with Adam. Death on those who had not sinned would be unjust judgement. But if God said that death came on all men when some of Adam’s children were not judged, that makes God a liar


I’ve never participated in the poll where you are gathering your data. I suspect that the majority of ministers haven’t been surveyed.


I’ve never heard anyone teach that Cain and Abel were the only two children that they had. Where Cain got his wife and where the rest of the world’s population is obviously from Adam. But you cannot say it is before the fall just because “most ministers” can’t find where they are mentioned. I don’t see anything wrong with saying that Cain and Abel were the first two boys and Seth was the third. You don’t like to hear that because you believe Adam had innocent children that were either left in the garden or judged without sin. Please tell me which.



You haven’t said anything that proves children were born in the Garden for 100,000 years.

You are guilty of excluding the time when sinners who would be likely to kill Cain would have been born.
Your logic fails the exact way that you claim “most” everyone else’s does.

And Cain clearly knew that people are born and expected more people would be born.

What you have missed is that time was created before man and Adam even living in the garden was 939 years old and not over 100,000.
But if you write a movie, it will probably sell like the da Vinci Code.

Oh - I Never looked at The DaVinci code!

Just in case you think this is something I concocted - and it's many more.

Did Eve Have Children Before the Fall?

I recently posted a comment in response to Brant Pitre’s post “Did the Virgin Mary Experience the Pains of Childbirth?” I said: “pain in childbirth is clearly taught in Scr…

rdtwot.wordpress.com

Did Adam and Eve have children before the Fall?

Did Adam and Eve have children before the Fall? When was Adam’s age counted, from his creation or his fall? Were the years of patriarchs’ vast ages really months?

creation.com

Did Adam and Eve Have Other Children In Eden?

Though the biblical text does not explicitly mention Adam and Eve having children while in the Garden of Eden, there are a few clues that can be inferred from the subsequent events and narratives p…

i12go4god.com

 

[Van]

Folks who fill in the blanks in their understanding of scripture with seemingly possible conjecture do not really believe in scripture alone. They are relics of the dark ages.

We were not there, and we do not know....