honkytonkopenairpreacher
New Member
I thought HA stood for Hells Angels. At least it does in the area of the nation I live.
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Hyles Anderson College
- Thread starter mark brandwein
- Start date
Welcome to the BB, sir.
Just so the reader knows, we are long past HA college at the time this thread was started. Jack Hyles has been in Heaven for many years. He was followed by his son-in-law Jack Schaap, who then spent many years in federal prison for taking an underage girl across state lines for lustful purposes. John Wilkerson has been pastor of 1st BC and head of HAC for a number of years now. I know him and he's a good man, in spite of the murky past of the church and college. He had a huge job trying to get everyone there past the sins of the former leaders, but the church and school seem to be prospering.
My recommendation for a college and seminary, though, is here: Baptist College of Ministry - Menomonee Falls, WI. For full disclosure, my son and I teach at this school.
Just so the reader knows, we are long past HA college at the time this thread was started. Jack Hyles has been in Heaven for many years. He was followed by his son-in-law Jack Schaap, who then spent many years in federal prison for taking an underage girl across state lines for lustful purposes. John Wilkerson has been pastor of 1st BC and head of HAC for a number of years now. I know him and he's a good man, in spite of the murky past of the church and college. He had a huge job trying to get everyone there past the sins of the former leaders, but the church and school seem to be prospering.
My recommendation for a college and seminary, though, is here: Baptist College of Ministry - Menomonee Falls, WI. For full disclosure, my son and I teach at this school.
Kai
Active Member
There’s a bit of a running joke in our church that anyone under church discipline should be forced to listen to the entire library of Jack Schaap sermons. My, how things have changed since this thread was created nearly 23 years ago.
I wish!So do you get paid commission??
John, this could be a new thread.
Since Schaap is out of prison - and if he truly repented - should he preach again?
Kai
Active Member
To be fair, I once held his preaching in high regard, particularly his extensive use of Scripture and the numerous missions he participated in. Unfortunately, his flesh got the better of him, and now many of us feel that the good he did has lost all its credibility. I don't know if that's the right attitude to have, even though I agree that he probably shouldn't preach ever again.
Yet, suppose a pastor fell into a life of being drunk - say after a couple of years - he gets "clean" - would we consider him to become a pastor again?
IF we say yes - then what would be the difference - say with Schaap?
If you do say yes - lets make a second comparison.
Suppose such a pastor - was involved in a DWI A) no injures B) A death was involved?????
NOTE: I am not taking sides (at the moment) rather this is for discussion
IF we say yes - then what would be the difference - say with Schaap?
If you do say yes - lets make a second comparison.
Suppose such a pastor - was involved in a DWI A) no injures B) A death was involved?????
NOTE: I am not taking sides (at the moment) rather this is for discussion
Kai
Active Member
Yes. The Bible says repentant believers are to be restored into the church community. In that case, it should be left up to the congregation to see if they are convinced of genuine repentance and wish to vote them back in as pastor.
I would give the same answer above.
In the case of a former pastor who has been convicted of sex crimes, if he is repentant, then yes, the Bible theoretically would allow that. However, if he is registered as a sex offender, he may not legally be allowed to go near children, and if I were a parent, I would have a hard time being comfortable with it.
That's about as honest of an answer as I can give.
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Absolutely not. The qualifications for a pastor are very clear in 1 Tim. 3: "not given to wine" (v. 3).
Same as before: "not given to wine." Also, "blameless." And much else could be said.
Moral impurity, drunkenness, etc. would give the world a handle to hang on pastors. "Oh, those Baptist pastors are terrible. You can't trust them at all." Such sins harm the cause of Christ deeply. Such men can still serve God, but not as pastors.
I once was led into a room filled with cots for us single men at a preachers conference. The man leading me in said, "Son, I was a preacher, but I lost the privilege. Son, don't ever drop the ball." By God's grace I have remembered that, and tried to live worthily of my calling.
Understood.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
I can’t say for myself that you have entertained a scenario in which I would say that a man who has destroyed his credibility as a pastor is able to take the job again.
Kai
Active Member
What about being restored into the church community as a non-clergical member of the flock as long as genuine repentance has been demonstrated?
Even if a believer has been found guilty of the most serious sin and have served their time, do we have the right to hinder their ability to obey the command of Hebrews 10:25?
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Ben1445
Well-Known Member
After jail time. And bringing fruits meet for repentance. I can’t say that I have ever heard of that happening. But God can give victory over sin else we would not be acceptable in church ourselves.
Key words are fruits and repentance. Most just want to be excused for their actions without repentance.
Though Jimmy Swaggart was not involved with underage - (& remember there were 2 seperate instances) He remained as pastor of his church, Family Worship Center. He was defrocked in 1988 and left the AOG
Evidently, JImmy was never re-ordained. After his death a little over a year ago - his ministry is being continued by his son Donie, and grandson. The ministry icludes the JS Bible College
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Jimmy should have been biblical enough and honest enough to resign his church.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Restoration to the church and restoration to responsibility in the church are two very different things.
1 Timothy 3:5
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Ephesians 5:3
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
(And for those who don’t understand what Paul meant, that means don’t sin, not don’t talk about the sin. It means don’t be guilty of the sin instead of don’t let people find out what sins you are sinning. If it meant don’t mention it, Paul is the first offender because he just mentioned it in a letter to be read among the church brethren.)
Certainly fornication and adultery would be the same as not being the husband of one wife no matter what your position is on that statement is in regard to divorce. (I should hope)