Arminians That I Admire

[Rippon]

... and I thank Rippon for starting this thread.

I had started this thread more than three years ago -- on 8/10/06.

In the thread Why Do Arminians Say Such Things you said (among other lies) that:

I despise Arminians, and that I think Arminians are blatant, sacreligious blasphemers.(Your post #45)

When I told you that that you were deliberately lying, you compounded your mendacity (in your post #62) by saying your charges were not deliberate lies.

Do you want to set things straight once and for all in this thread which contradicts your falsehoods?

 

[JDale]

I had started this thread more than three years ago -- on 8/10/06.

In the thread Why Do Arminians Say Such Things you said (among other lies) that:

I despise Arminians, and that I think Arminians are blatant, sacreligious blasphemers.(Your post #45)

When I told you that that you were deliberately lying, you compounded your mendacity (in your post #62) by saying your charges were not deliberate lies.

Do you want to set things straight once and for all in this thread which contradicts your falsehoods?

Yes Rip, let's "set things straight" -- I assumed you'd repented of your hateful statements, so I was willing to offer you the "right hand of fellowship" and consider your past false accusations and rude comments to be hyperbole posted in the heat of the moment.

Seeing that you actually started this thread 3 years ago (I missed this yesterday), and your Why Do Arminians Say Such Things comments were just a few days ago, I suppose I must conclude that I erred when I thought you'd amended your views. Certainly your restatement of some of your charges ("among other lies," "deliberately lying," "your falsehoods")is unfortunate.

I see no reason to hold grudges -- I think that's counterproductive to serving the Lord. I am sorry that my comments were so indelibly burned into your memory. I can only say that I hope you are willing to forgive me for the things I said. As my previous post in the other thread indicated, I didn't hold your charges that I was "deliberately lying" against you. For what it's worth, that was forgiven and forgotten.

And I do appreciate your having started this thread, even if it was 3 years ago. It gives me hope that the hostility on both sides of this divide can be overcome -- if we want it to be.

JDale

 

[Rippon]

Yes Rip, let's "set things straight" -- I assumed you'd repented of your hateful statements,

What hateful statements? You are the one who made things up out of whole cloth and attributed them to me. Be reponsible and own up to your deliberate misrepresentations.

and consider your past false accusations

What false accusations? Yours were the only false ones.

I suppose I must conclude that I erred when I thought you'd amended your views.

I haven't amended any views. So yes, you erred.

Certainly your restatement of some of your charges ("among other lies," "deliberately lying," "your falsehoods")is unfortunate.

However "unfortunate", my charges are true.

 

[saturneptune]

What hateful statements? You are the one who made things up out of whole cloth and attributed them to me. Be reponsible and own up to your deliberate misrepresentations.

How about this phrasing instead? I do not believe my statements to be hateful. The validity of both of our posts should stand on our words compared to the truth.

What false accusations? Yours were the only false ones.

How about this? I am not in the habit of making false accusations. Whatever I said was exactly how I feel about the situation deep inside.

I haven't amended any views. So yes, you erred.

Here ya go. My views stay the same.

However "unfortunate", my charges are true.

Actually, that one sounds pretty good.

 

[Rippon]

How about this phrasing instead? I do not believe my statements to be hateful. The validity of both of our posts should stand on our words compared to the truth.

You are putting words in my mouth. Why are you trolling?

How about this? I am not in the habit of making false accusations. Whatever I said was exactly how I feel about the situation deep inside.

No, none of that psycho-babble about "what I feel deep down inside." A lie, is a lie, is a lie.

Find a thread and post something of merit for a change, instead of your juvenile routine.

 

[Rippon]

Elizabeth Elliot. She has Calvinistic leanings, but isn't a Calvinist. I have always appreciated her work. I used to listen to her radio program regularly for years. I have several of her books. They're gems.

 

[saturneptune]

You are putting words in my mouth. Why are you trolling?



No, none of that psycho-babble about "what I feel deep down inside." A lie, is a lie, is a lie.

Find a thread and post something of merit for a change, instead of your juvenile routine.

Now Mr Rippon, you have not learned a thing. You need to say 50 hail Marys and write 1000 times on notebook paper, "I will not be rude to the bretheren."

 

[Rippon]

You need to say 50 hail Marys

Are you Roman Catholic?

"I will not be rude to the bretheren(sic)."

Is that a promise?

 

[Rippon]

SN, you have made eight posts on this thread. You have contributed absolutely nothing to the premise of the OP. Don't you admire any Arminians? I have listed quite a few.

 

[saturneptune]

SN, you have made eight posts on this thread. You have contributed absolutely nothing to the premise of the OP. Don't you admire any Arminians? I have listed quite a few.

On a serious note, I do not think, as has been said in other posts, that you hate Arminians, in fact, have listed several you admired. On this board, I think Allen and Webdog do a good job of articulating whichever degree they are between the two. As I told you before, I think to characterize Calvinistic beliefs as God sitting up in heaven zapping people at random with a regeneration magic wand is way off base. God knows everything He is doing whether we understand or not.

To mention one, we did a study on Wesley, and I admire him.

Not to get off the subject of the op, but what do you think of Knox?

 

[Jim1999]

I think Betty Elliot is a typical American Calvinist, as was Jim before her.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[JDale]

How about this phrasing instead? I do not believe my statements to be hateful. The validity of both of our posts should stand on our words compared to the truth.

How about this? I am not in the habit of making false accusations. Whatever I said was exactly how I feel about the situation deep inside.

Here ya go. My views stay the same.

Actually, that one sounds pretty good.

Rip:

My attempt was a simple one. I was trying to thank you for starting this thread (how long ago was not germaine to me when I first posted here). I actually still do appreciate that some here who are Calvinist can tip their hats and even admire some Arminians. My only goal was to acknowledge that -- and I do.

Rip, that you continue to doggedly pursue our earlier disagreement on this thread is not in keeping (as I understand it) with the OP -- even if it WAS you who started it! Therefore, I am left to conclude that because of your personal animosity toward me, nothing I say will further contribute to this topic. I am very sorry -- and I thank those of you who have posted on this thread -- sincerely.

I hold no grudge, Rip. I hope you feel the same. Blessings in your work on behalf of His Kingdom...

JDale

 

[Rippon]

On a serious note,

So, are you admitting that everything you've said up to this point was meant to be funny?!

I do not think, as has been said in other posts, that you hate Arminians,

Thanks for acknowledging the obvious.

in fact, have listed several you admired.

You meant to say that I have listed several that I have admired.

On this board, I think Allen and Webdog do a good job of articulating whichever degree they are between the two.

"Between the two" what? That's an awkwardly worded sentence. Are you trying to say that those two posters represent a section of non-Calvinistic Christianity and that while having some gaps between them, they share some common theological ground?

As I told you before, I think to characterize Calvinistic beliefs as God sitting up in heaven zapping people at random with a regeneration magic wand is way off base.

To say the very least.

To mention one, we did a study on Wesley, and I admire him.

What in particular did you admire about him?

Not to get off the subject of the op, but what do you think of Knox?

He was a wonderful second generation Reformer. You've made it quite plain in multiple posts that Calvin was nothing but a baby-dipping theological thug etc. However, John Knox was at the feet of John Calvin in Geneva for several years. He gained a lot from the experience.

Dr. M-L-Jones regarded him as kind of an early Puritan.

I admire his passion behind the pulpit thundering out God's Word with no compromise.

 

[Rippon]

Rip, that you continue to doggedly pursue our earlier disagreement

Our mere disagreement! Our little misunderstanding, our difference of opinion?! No. Admit it. You said despicable lies about me and my views and have never retracted them.

You said that I despise Arminians.
You said that I think Arminians are blatant, sacreligious blasphemers.
You said that my views are as aberrant as they are abhorrent.

It's instructive that while you attributed all these evils to my person that you then called my views aberrant and abhorrent.

 

[saturneptune]

What in particular did you admire about him?

Charles Wesley is credited for founding the Methodist faith along with his brother and others, but what I think I admire about him is his emphasis on holy living and sanctification. I think many times a church today puts all its emphasis on salvation and very little on sanctification. There are lots of people who attend church who never moved out of the pew on Sunday morning. There has to be a connection between Bible study, prayer, and daily living guided by the Lord. My opinion is that the church has as much responsibility to nurture and mature its members as it does in spreading the Gospel.

 

[Rippon]

Warren Wiersbe ranks high in my estimation after all his years in the ministry in a range of roles.

I disagree with a number of his positions, but respect him as a godly man.

His incredible Be series is quite the blessing.

 

[Jim1999]

Frankly, I think, for the most part, we use the labels, Calvinist and Arminian far too loosely. One is a five-pointer, another is a 4-pointer and variations in between, yet all labelled as Calvinists. How so? Then we want to label all non-Calvinists as Arminian.

As Baptists, there are a lot of Calvinistic doctrines we blatenly deny, but we still call ourselves Calvinists. A good many Baptists in Canada, believe predestination and election are based in God's foreknowledge, which is not Calvinistic, and yet they label themselves as Calvinists. They are certainly not Arminian.

I see a number of men in here labelled as Arminian, yet they firmly taught the eternal security of the believer and absolute sovereignty of God. Then, even Arminius believed in the absolute sovereignty of God, but denied it in his view of soteriology. Confusion does reign supreme in many circles, especially when attributing the common labels.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Bob Alkire]

Warren Wiersbe ranks high in my estimation after all his years in the ministry in a range of roles.

I disagree with a number of his positions, but respect him as a godly man.

His incredible Be series is quite the blessing.

You could be correct, but I've never heard of Warren Wiersbe calling himself as Calvinists or Arminian. I've never call him either. Does he claim to be Arminian or is that you calling him Arminian ?

 

[drfuss]

Frankly, I think, for the most part, we use the labels, Calvinist and Arminian far too loosely. One is a five-pointer, another is a 4-pointer and variations in between, yet all labelled as Calvinists. How so? Then we want to label all non-Calvinists as Arminian.

As Baptists, there are a lot of Calvinistic doctrines we blatenly deny, but we still call ourselves Calvinists. A good many Baptists in Canada, believe predestination and election are based in God's foreknowledge, which is not Calvinistic, and yet they label themselves as Calvinists. They are certainly not Arminian.

I see a number of men in here labelled as Arminian, yet they firmly taught the eternal security of the believer and absolute sovereignty of God. Then, even Arminius believed in the absolute sovereignty of God, but denied it in his view of soteriology. Confusion does reign supreme in many circles, especially when attributing the common labels.

Cheers,

Jim

I find it interesting how many Non-5 Point Calvinists still want to be called Calvinists and refuse to admit they are Arminians in any way. The issues between Calvin and Arminius were unconditional election and irresistible grace, not eternal security.

I have a friend who graduated from Moody as a 5 Point Calvinist. Over the years, he has changed his beliefs to only believe in the 5th point. However, he insists he is still a 5 Point Calvinist; but he changed the definitions of the first four points. Apparently among the Calvinists world, the name Arminian has been talked against so much that the One Point Calvinists don't want to admit they are Arminians in any way.

 

[Rippon]

You could be correct, but I've never heard of Warren Wiersbe calling himself as Calvinists or Arminian. I've never called him one either. Does he claim to be Arminian or is that you calling him Arminian ?

I'm calling him out! Not exactly. He may not call himself an Arminian -- but who from a Calvary Church background does? They want to be considered right in the middle and balanced between the Arminian and Calvinistic poles. However, they are firmly in the Arminian camp denials or not.

Mister Wiersbe pastored a church in Convington, Kentucky back in the 70's -- Calvary Baptist Church.

Also Iain Murray in his his bio of Dr. David M-Lloyd-Jones spoke of him not exactly sharing the theology of the latter. But Dr. L-Jones considered him a friend and even spoke at Wiersbe's church with certain stipulations made beforehand.