Old Regular Baptist

History

Brother Bob, as I only can type shot sentences and this is a history forum I agree ,without faith it is imposssible to please God ,the Spirt is recieved by the hearing of faith, if all men world wide have faith they would all be children of God.I doubt very much the man in the bar using Gods name in vain, has the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seem nor does he have the fruit oif the Spirt, this doctrine is new to the Old Baptist it originated from the Russell Prater Church by men who caused the Spilt in the Union which is where the Bethel Came from in the early !960s, this has been confirmed by brothers on both sides, these men did not stay in the Union long after the divide at one point they drew up a list of men in the new saalem that had the same doctrine as the bethel and took it to Grady Adkins who shamed them, and told them what they were doing was wrong,and sow discord among the brethern.I am not an eyewittness but have talked with those who were.

 

Bethels Doctrine

There after the dropping of the Bold Camp church,there was a series of lawsuits that should have never been, one judge a Primitive would not hear them and told them the church was the highest court on earth but thet went to law before the unjust both the union and bethel 8 out of 9 cases the bethel was declared to be the original old regular baptist in doctrine,using previous circular letters of the union association which they had approved,years before and using the articles of faith with scripture references found in the blue history book, it was also proven in mans court union violated by dissmissing a church without unanimous consent.There was a meeting held several years a go with leaders from several regular baptist associations,they talked freely and openly about our differences and returning to the original doctrine and practice of orb but neither side could at that time comply.As one side left some practice out,the other side had ministers advocating freewill doctrines.Absolutism was not to be tolerated nor works for salvation.

 

faith

Brother Mike;
I am pondering how to answer you. Since I have been on Baptist Board almost every thread eventually turns into a Calvinist/Arminian discussion and neither side has given one inch. I admire the Calvinist (which I know you don't want to be called) but they do present scripture and I knew those scriptures were in the Bible before I entered the discussion. I guess I believe like Abraham:

I believe that there is a measure of faith that a man has that is not saved. Enough to believe there is a God, for He said "they shall all know me from the least unto the greatest". I certainly "agree" that the man in the bar does not have the faith once delievered unto the saints.

That is the faith which is the substance of things hoped for.

No Calvinist or anyone else has been able to overcome;

14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19: And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, "lest his deeds should be reproved. " (says he could of went either way)

I have seen it over and over men forgetting how much power the Church, Association has. I have heard it over and over "they can't do that". They forget that the Association is ruled by a majority and if anyone including me goes against them, I will lose and they have Scripture for it too.
(whatsoever you bind on earth, shall be bound in Heaven and whatsoever you loose on earth, shall be loosed in Heaven).
I have tried several times over the years to get brother to not take them on for they will lose but they go ahead and then they are on the outside. The judge was right! The Church is the greatest power on earth.
Things are changing and you mention the old doctrine and how can I argue with you for I don't know. I do know that all the Associations I am in correspondence with accepted the doctrine of today and it was decided in 1893.
I am like the brethren when the split came with Mates Creek. I love the Primitive and hold no malice towards them whatsoever. Even though they believe in "elect" prechosen, they still preach unto the whole world so if I am right they are still getting the ones I believe "choose ye this day whom ye shall serve".
This is a long post and don't know if it will post or not but blessings and maybe someday we will meet.

BBob

 

By the Way, there is a Spirit teaching man what he is by nature and what he must be by Grace so man can't do anything on his own but that Spirit strives with all men until they have been turned over to a hardness of heart.

 

How do we believe?

ephesians 1:19 ".......to usward who believe according to the working of his mighty power," Phillippians 1:29 "For unto you it is given in behalf of Christ,not only to believe on him,but also suffer for his sake."

 

How do we believe?

Acts 13:48"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad,and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." Acts 18:27"...........,helped them much which had believed through grace:"If all men world wide had faith all men world wide would be justified. The measure of faith doctrine is hyper-arminisim I know you don't believe the whole world is going to heaven this is a new doctrine even the modern churches know better.Read the book of Romans 5 th chapter "therefore being justifified by faith. What of the faith of Gods Elect? You are better off preaching the Grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us, and through that Grace men and women believe and our justified by the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ. Thus it is Grace for Grace."Bro.Slone

 

How do we believe?

John 6:28-29 "then said they unto him,What shall we do,that we might work the works of God?29 Jesus answered and said unto them,This is THE WORK OF GOD,that you believe on himwhom he hath sent."

 

Faith

Except you believe that I am He ye shall die in your sins. He was telling them to believe while they were still sinners and He would save them.

1 Timothy, chapter 5
"8": But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

"9": Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man,

"10": Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

"11": But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;

"12": Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

Unless you believe in a fall, they cast off a faith of some kind, must of not been the saving faith. If there was a "first faith" there must of been "other"s.


Luke, chapter 17
12": And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:

"13": And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.

"14": And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

"15": And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,

"16": And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.

"17": And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?

"18": There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.

"19": And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

Unless you believe in a fall this man had faith before Salvation and also did something about the condition he was in.


Mark, chapter 5
"28": For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.

"29": And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.

"30": And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?

"31": And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

"32": And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.

"33": But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.

"34": And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

She had faith enough to move out and touch Jesus’s garment and she was not saved until she received the virtue.

James, chapter 2
14": What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
17": Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone
18": Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works

Seems to me if you don’t have any works you have a dead faith, if you believe the children of God can have a dead faith then you believe in a fall again.

Ephesians, chapter 2
"8": For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

"9": Not of works, lest any man should boast.

"10": For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

(good works is what God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.)

 

whosoever will

by nature there is none that seeketh. man is totaly depraved,has neither the will or power to recover himself most orb carry that as an article of faith Union Assn."we believe in the doctrine of original sin,and man's impotency to rescue himself from the fallen state he is in by his own freewill and ability" the bible is plain on this John 1:13"..........which were born ,not of blood,nor of the will of the flesh,NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN,but of GOD" Romans 9:16"so then IT IS NOTof him that willeth,nor of him that runneth, BUT OF GOD that sheweth mercy". So the promise is to whosoever that believeth, calleth,comes, but the will and the do came from God that worketh. The whosoevers of this world are the elect of God. they are predestinated to the adoption of children, they are elect according to the foreknowlege of God and this election by Grace is through something : 1PETER1:1'...........the Father through sanctification of the Spirt, unto obedience and the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:"

 

also 2 Thess 2:13 "But we are bound to give thanks alway to Godfor you brethern beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirt and belief of the truth" note both times before obedience, before belief of the truth what was first ?sactification of the Spirt. also take your blue history book look at the scriptures used to reference election by grace in the Union Association ,they are the same scriptures I have been using ,much of what I have written comes from the history and circular letters of the associations you are in correspondence with, who changed ? In Love Bro. Slone

 

I was in a service yesterday with some of your old friends and maybe still, I don’t know. Elder Estil Hamilton brought up service, Brother Roger Hick followed and I closed out. Brother Floyd Jude was there also along with a Brother Bobby Slone and several other preachers.

Surely you don’t think anything I said disagrees with that Article. Man can’t save himself but that does not say anything about faith enough to believe there is a God. We believe that all men are lost and cannot save themselves but must answer God’s calling which goes out to one and all for time and chance has happened unto all. Whosoever means Whosoever. We believe that the Lord strives with all men but that man must open the door to his heart and let the Lord come in and lead Him to repentance and Salvation. The woman with the issue of blood that I quoted, something had taught her that Jesus was the Saviour of she would not of had faith to move out and touch him.

You sure put a spin on the "whosoever". What about, "come unto me all ye ends of the earth and be ye saved for I am God?

 

The measure of faith

I would like for all the bible readers to take a look at the 12th chapter of Romans, Paul is speaking to who? I beseech you therefore brethern. note the 3rd verse for I say,through the grace givenunto me, TO EVERY MAN THAT IS AMONG YOU,not to think more highly than he ought to think;but to think soberly according as God hath delt to every man the measure of faith."(every man in the world or every man among the brethern?) note the next vs 4"for as we have(we who the church) note vs 6".......let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith. "This faith was given to the brethern to work the gifts that God gave. "Find one bible scholar or comentator who writes different even the arminian ones. Now look up 1 Corint 12:7 here the manifestation of the Spirt is given to every man to profit withal, note it is talking of gifts again and what this Spirt gives to them (them being the body read the whole chapter)

 

The following shows faith before Salvation. I know you probably won't admit it but one of the strongest Calvinist on here finally had to admit the woman believed before she got virtue and was saved. All of the following Scriptures speak for them selves. I understand you have felt this way for some time and I know if that is so I am not going to change you Mike. If you believe that way then you belong with the hard shells. If I believed as you do I would today belong to Mates Creek Association of Primitive Baptist for I have many friends there.

1 Timothy, chapter 5
"8": But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

"9": Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years old, having been the wife of one man,

"10": Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good work.

"11": But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;

"12": Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
Unless you believe in a fall, they cast off a faith of some kind, must of not been the saving faith.


Luke, chapter 17
12": And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:

"13": And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.

"14": And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

"15": And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,

"16": And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.

"17": And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?

"18": There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.

"19": And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

Unless you believe in a fall this man had faith before Salvation.

Mark, chapter 5
"28": For she said, If I may touch but his clothes, I shall be whole.

"29": And straightway the fountain of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of that plague.

"30": And Jesus, immediately knowing in himself that virtue had gone out of him, turned him about in the press, and said, Who touched my clothes?

"31": And his disciples said unto him, Thou seest the multitude thronging thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

"32": And he looked round about to see her that had done this thing.

"33": But the woman fearing and trembling, knowing what was done in her, came and fell down before him, and told him all the truth.

"34": And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.
She had faith enough to move out and touch Jesus’s garment and she was not saved until she received the virtue.
James, chapter 2
14": What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
17": Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone
18": Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works
Seems to me if you don’t have any works you have a dead faith, if you believe the children of God can have a dead faith then you believe in a fall again.

Ephesians, chapter 2
"8": For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

"9": Not of works, lest any man should boast.

"10": For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

(good works is what God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.)

 

Sorry Squire, got carried away.:type:

 

every one

Now read Eph 4:7 (along with the whole chapter)"But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ." So if every means every man world wide you would have to say that they all have faith, they all have Grace and they all have the Spirt. Pray tell me what else does he need.That is what the Universal Primitives Believe look how dangerously close some old Regulars are slipping their direction. Let me clear a few other things up also about me, I don't believe in absolute predestination,nor do I believe the eternal children doctrine of some ORB's.I do believe that by his own will he begat us ,through the word and that word being Christ. I believe that life or the Spirt comes first in the travail and Gods goodness leads us to repentence which is unto life not into,as many as are lead by the Spirt of God they are the sons of God , Light and LIfe are both the same thing if you are talking about Christ. Light to the world brings condemnation, but to those who recieved and believed it is life. The lost are not lost because of election,they are lost because of their own corruption, they recieved not the love of truth,they do not come to the light, they believe not, these unbelievers are not his sheep they are lovers of darkness, their condemnation was ordained of old,ey but God did not make them evil in order to condemn them ,he condems them because they are evil,and they have not believed on the only begotten Son of God.Thats way they can say Amen to there own condemnation.2 Thess 2:10-12 tells us the cause. Why then should we blame election for it. If the governor chooses to pardon 2 out 100 prisioners on death row has he been unjust to the other 98 if they are guilty ? Hath not the potter power over the clay? Yet men call him unjust, he will save every whosover will,every believer ,every one that calls upon him with a broken heart and contrite spirt."Blessed are they that mourn :for they shall be comforted."(note if they are mourning they are not to be blessed they are already blessed they are to be comforted, this is what I believe and this is not talking about mourning over mother but through a Godly sorrow,they are blessed because he that begun a good work in them will perform it till the day of Jesus Christ,same as the ones that hunger and thirst after righteousness,they are already blessed and their going to be filled,REV22:17 "And the Spirt and the Bride say come(to hear them you must have a ear to hear proverbs tells us the Lord created them both).And let him that heareth say Come.(they that hear shall live) And whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely. Thank the Lord for Free Grace Bro.Slone

 

proverbs 20:12

prov 20:12 The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the Lord hath made even both of them." PSalms 65:4 " Blessed is the man whom thou choosest ,and causeset to approach unto thee,.........." May God Bless

 

My last reply Mike or we going to get banned. The moderator Squire has told us to refrain from posting anything except History on here.
You are cherry picking Mike to fit your own case. I know there are some among who feel as you do but talked to Brother Isom's son-in-law yesterday and he said brother Isom did not believe you didn't get faith until you come to the church. May God Bless and Good luck.

Lest His Deeds Be Reproved!!!!!!! Where does the Bible say they will say "amen" to their own comdemnation?

 

Historical debate

I apologize if we have used the wrong thread.This debate however shows the reader,what the difference is between ,the two sides of old Regular Baptist, and has given much information,on the doctines of these Churches. So I hope you will give us a mantle of charity,for prehaps going to far into doctrine on this thread. We will close for now Elder Slone.

 

I will end with this Scripture which says that the light, don't leave anyone out but includes the whole world and if it gives life then all would be saved but it does not, just shows what a man is by nature and what he must be by Grace.


John, chapter 1
7": The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

"8": He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

"9": That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

"10": He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.