Featured Who is Sanctified in Hebrews 10:29?

So let's look at a few who did not abide:


John 16:28-32

King James Version (KJV)

28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.

30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.


So if we make abiding in Christ to represent salvation (and it does), and failure to abide to mean those saved lose their salvation, then we must conclude the disciples were saved in John 15:1-6, then lost their salvation...then were saved again.

But another L.O.S.T. (loss of salvation teaching) is going to complicate this for you...they can't be renewed to repentance!

So good job, Vooks, you have just proven none of the disciples were actually saved, lol.

Now, because we see that the disciples did not abide in Christ when we impose a meaning of remaining faithful, what is in view?

I will ask you one question on this passage and when you answer it we will proceed to the interpretation you have not understood yet, just as you have not been able to understand others because you lack the basic understanding essential to a correct interpretation.

Here is the question: what is the vine which is not the True Vine?

Salvation is in view here, and abiding in the True Vine is essential to salvation, so, what is not the true vine?


God bless.

 

No straw man, a paradox, as I said.

You impose a meaning of salvation into confidence. Did you not post the verse as a proof text salvation (not confidence) can be lost?

You imply that loss of salvation is the inevitable result of "casting away your confidence," and continue to affirm you view salvation as a reward for works.


Continued...

 

Why have you ignored the proof text offered to show you that Paul teaches explicitly that salvation is not a matter of reward? Salvation has rewards, but salvation itself is not a reward.

Here is the Scripture again:

Address the Scripture, Vooks. You will not continue to maintain your works-based mentality if you simply acknowledge Scripture.

You waste quite a bit of time when you do not address the points offered you. If you want to be effective in ministry on public forums, you are going to need to have a little more discipline than you are now currently using.


Continued...

 

Sorry, no...that is heresy, plain and simple.

What work will you do, Vooks, that makes God a debtor to you?

Of course, I understand you do not really understand what you are saying, and how that applies to the truth of Scripture, the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Here we see yet another example of you saying two opposite statements:

It's like I am speaking to two people, the Vooks that is beginning to understand, and the Vooks that wants to desperately cling to his own beliefs.

Make up your mind, Dr. Hyde, which is it. Both cannot be true.

And before you set yourself to try to prove how two opposing concepts can be identical...just address the Scripture already given you. That is just another element you will have to come to understand, which is the positive statement in Scripture which teaches men cannot save themselves through their own efforts, only Christ can do that.

And unless you think you hung on the Cross with the Son of God, and contributed to the payment for the penalty for your sin, then you are forced to actually embrace the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and abandon the Gospel according to Vooks.


Continued...

 

Sorry, no, lol, we did not agree that "salvation takes cooperation of both man and God."

Again, you misunderstand what I have said, which is simply we do not divorce man's participation in salvation, because he is the subject of salvation.

Faith is not a work, which is clearly shown in this...



Ephesians 2:8-10

King James Version (KJV)

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


If you say faith is a work, then you, again, nullify what is actually stated in Scripture.

And what causes you to miss the simple statement is indoctrination into the L.O.S.T.

His workmanship, Vooks, His workmanship.

That is very easy: when the Comforter enlightened my mind to the truth...I did not reject that truth and yielded unto God.

In detail: God showed me something I was not aware of, that I was a sinner, that I was headed for Hell, and that Christ was the Remedy.

Christ taught how this would begin at Pentecost in John 16:7-9.

But where you, and you Arminian brethren make the mistake is...to ascribe ability to men. I didn't have any ability to underrstand my condition, God showed me. I didn't have any ability to correct that condition, because first Christ died so that I might be forgiven, secondly God showed me I needed to be saved, and third, most importantly in our discussion for you to understand...

...I did not tread Christ underfoot, count the sanctifying blood of Christ unholy (which I would not have done anyway because I was not brought up under the Law, therefore we have to keep that in the context of Hebrews), and I did not do despite unto the Spirit of Grace, or, in other words, I did not reject the Ministry of the Comforter.

So nowhere in my salvation experience can I pat myself on the back and say, "Well done, my fine fellow, you have helped God to save you."

And that is what you are doing, in one sense becoming guilty, to a degree, of the very thing warned against in Hebrews. Can you really say "I am trusting Christ" when in fact...

...you don't? You are trusting yourself, Vooks, to keep yourself saved. You deny Scripture, because you do not believe you are kept by the power of God, and that your inheritance is as Peter teaches...


1 Peter 1:3-5

King James Version (KJV)

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


You do not believe you are born again by the Resurrection of Christ, and even if you did...you fear He will take that away from you unless you are good enough.

As I said, stinks to be you. But, if you will simply give attention to what Scripture does say, you can progress above the inital faith you have, and your faith will grow...

...and grow...

...and grow.

I know.

This is again exhortation not to forsake the assembling of the brethren. In view is persecution and tribulation, which is unique to a Hebrew audience because they grew up under the Law, as did their communities. For a first century Jew, embracing the New Covenant could mean excommunication and death.

And you do not keep that first century context intact, you see this only from a modern application which on many points causes you to misinterpret the Chapter as a whole.

I have on numerous occasions debated the modern concept given this:


Hebrews 10:25

King James Version (KJV)

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


I have never once heard the first Pastor or Preacher properly expound on this verse, instead, it is yanked out of it's context and used to teach faithful Church attendance.

Forgotten is the profound statements stated just prior to this verse, as well as those which follow. The Writer makes it clear that the blood of bulls and goats cannot make the comer thereunto perfect, that the believer is sanctified once, that as the Promise was given those who are sanctified are made perfect forever in regards to remission of sins, that there is no more sacrifice for those sanctified because it is complete when applied.

Pretty aggravating, lol.

But this is what happens when people try to build their soteriology from part of a passage neglecting contextual elements. This is what happens when they compound that error by neglecting positive statements.

Okay, have to get ready for work, might check back in afterwards, but not much time today.


God bless.

 

Which is why you do not understand the True Vine. If there is a True Vine, there is a vine that is not true. What is it?

And that is asking nicely, and I'll even throw in a please.


God bless.

 

And that is the works-based mentality: we are saved if we have faith, and if we maintain that faith. If we lose that faith...we become unsaved.

Scripture doesn't teach a work of faith which work is effected by the one having faith. Christ generates faith.

Do you start a car with faith, or do you simply have faith the car will start. You don't get behind the wheel every time and say, "Gosh, I sure hope the car starts this time, even though it starts every time I turn the key and has never failed to start before."

The difference between the car and Christ is that we have Scripture as a basis for faith, and unlike cars, which can break down, Christ has never failed to keep His promises and provide a faulty salvation to people.

A paradox is created when we call not trusting Christ to do what He said He would do...faith.


God bless.

 

Again you are trying to make two opposites equate.

Either it is a reward, or it isn't. I have provided two passages which deny salvation is given as compensation for something we have done.

Salvation has rewards, but is not itself a reward, because we would then have to provide works to earn that reward.

I agree, that doctrine is satanic.


God bless.

 

And my hope is that you will see that this is what you do.

Did the disciples abide in Christ? We would have to forget that they all abandoned Him, according to His Word. We would have to forget that Peter denied he even knew Him. We would have to forget that Peter and several disciples went back to fishing for fish, rather than men.

When did the disciples return to ministry for Christ, Vooks?

To say they were "abiding in Christ" during the time Christ is taken, murdered, buried, Resurrected, and then returning to Heaven...

...certainly can't be taken out of Scripture...it has to be imposed into it.

And that is what most do. They fail to see that the disciples did not abide in Christ in the same understanding imposed into what "abiding" means. "Abiding in Christ" is taught to mean remaining faithful, and if one does not do that they lose their salvation.

And all it takes is to properly place a number of issues in their proper context to understand the Lord's teaching here.

So what is the vine which is not the True Vine. I'll give you a hint, Vooks, you can see Paul use this same imagery in Romans 11, which is, surprise surprise, another passage that the L.O.S.T. use to teach their doctrine.

Well, that kind of wresting does make people faithful in Church attendance, and it does help fill the tithing baskets...


God bless.

 

Don't feel bad, I have been shirking my responsibilities and will have to get back to them in earnest myself, lol.

See you when you get back, Vooks.


God bless.