Featured Man's relationship to God today

What you are saying is manifestly false and self-contradictory. You do not believe we are "saved" the "same way" by "the grace of God" and it is simple to prove.

1. We are "saved" in reference to sin by justification, meaning our sins are remitted and righteousness is imputed that is how we are saved in reference to sin. You do not believe we are "saved" in the "same way" and you know it.

2. We are "saved" in reference to spiritual separation from God by regeneration that is how we are "saved." You do not believe we are "saved" in the "same way" and you know it!

3. We are "saved" by "grace" that is justified "without works" that is how we are "saved by grace." You do not believe we are "saved" in the "same way" and you know it as you believe they are saved BY THEIR RIGHTEOUSNESS not imputed righteousness of Christ and you believe it is their works that manifest that righteousness by which they are saved. You believe justification is by works not grace for Old Testaments and you have made that clear several times.

There is no imposition, there is only way kind of salvation that God provides for fallen man regardless when they live as they have the VERY SAME PROBLEM - sin and spiritual separation from God and there is not other solution to that problem but a substitutionary Savior who died for sin, thus remitting it by his death and the imputed righteousness that satisfies God's Law which is God's own righteousness imputed to the believer through faith in Christ. No other salvation exists. That is why BEFORE the cross Jesus could say "no man" (pre or post) can come to the father but by him. That is why BEFORE the cross Jesus could say there is but ONE WAY (Mt. 7:13-14). That is why AFTER the cross Peter could say that all prophets preached remission of sins through faith in Christ (Acts 10:43).

Infants are regenerated and indwelt at the time of death through manifestation of Christ in their hearts in connection with the gospel before and after the cross.

Job, the oldest book in the Bible repudiates your nonsense. Job proves that the gospel was sufficiently preached to him so that he did UNDERSTAND he was a sinner condemned by God and that he needed to be redeemed from his sins and trusted in the anticipated Christ as "my redeemer" and he believed that Christ was presently alive at the time he trusted in him - "my redeemer LIVETH"

You are wasting my time and the timer of those on this forum by the nonsense you espouse.

 

If you would have read carefully what I said, you would not be asking this question. I gave John the Baptist as an example of what God can do in the womb with an infant. John heard the gospel and "leaped for joy" and was "filled' with the Spirit from the womb. Who says that God cannot save an infant, meaning enlightening the infant in the truth of the gospel at the point of death? John the Baptist leaped "for joy" and joy is the response of an understanding mind. Salvation is REVELATION within the heart (2 Cor. 4:6) regardless of age and it is God's power that makes it understandable.

 

If you understood the Biblical doctrine of regeneration you would not be asking these questions or challenging my position. You obviously have no clue. Spiritual separation is separation from the LIFE of God, the LIGHT of God and the HOLINESS of God. Regeneration is spiritual reunion with God, with his LIFE (thus "quickening" - Eph. 2:1,5); with his LIGHT (thus "light of knowledge" - 2 Cor. 4:6) with HOLINESS (thus "created in righteousness and true holiness" and this is a creative act "in Christ" (Eph. 2:10). Faith requires enlightenment or knowledge of God through Jesus Christ (Jn. 17:3; 2 Cor. 4:6) and that created "light of knowledge" within man is the substance of justifying faith, thus regenerative faith. Man cannot believe by the outward "ear" alone but there must be DIVINE REVELATION within man that gives him eyes to see and ears to hear.

Peter had this divine revelation BEFORE the cross (Mt. 16:17) thus regenerated before the cross. Justification by faith is IMPOSSIBLE apart divine internal "light of knowledge of God in the face of Jesus Christ" as Christ is "Jesus" of the Old Testament or "Jehovah our Savior." If you don't understand the abc's of regeneration or regenerative faith no wonder you don't understand the essentials of salvation.

 

You are simply wrong! Sin is the problem and spiritual separation when conceived is the consequence. Sin brings death not death brings sin and death is SPIRITUAL SEPARATION. You need to learn the abc's again, that is if you have ever been taught the abc's of the fall and consequences of sin. The wages of SIN is death not the wages of death (spiritual separation) is sin! You have it backwards and your faulting intepretation of Romans 5:10-13 demonstrates your have it backwards.

BTW if you had continued to verse 14 you would have answered your own argument.

We are all born into this world as infants Darrell and as sinners condemned "already" because the whole human nature existed and acted "in Adam" and when he sinned, the whole human race sinned and that is why infants don't need to be aborted in the womb to die, they can die of many of the same causes that adults die - "the wages of sin IS DEATH" not vice versa!! Paul says we have "ALL" sinned, not just adults?

Verses 13-14 prove that the death of infants and others who have no personal ability to discern right or wrong IN THEIR OWN LIFE TIME is due to their union with Adam and his act of sin in Genesis 2:17.

Genesis 2:17 is the universal law broken by all mankind "in Adam." There is no other universal law that could have been broken to cause death between Adam and Moses as the Law of Moses had not yet been given.

The law of conscience does not explain the death of all between Adam and Moses, because infants cannot violate that law as they have no ability to discern conscience and so that does not explain their subjection to death. The only law that explains the death concerning those who did not sin after the similitude of Adam's transgression, which was a WILLFUL KNOWING ACT of sin, is that the whole human nature acted when Adam acted.

Romans 5:15-19 proves this to be the case. Paul did not say it was by "many sins" that many die or many are condemned (which is your position) but by "ONE MAN"S SIN" many were made sinners, many were condemned because the whole human race existed in that one man and acted when that one man acted.

Like I said, you don't understand the basics of sin and spiritual death and therefore can't understand the basics of salvation (regeneration and justification).

 

No human being has the capacity for faith as that is why Christ said "NO MAN can come to me" without divine intervention. If God can cause John the Baptist in the womb to understand the good news of Christ's birth so that he jumps for joy, then how can you say God cannot REVEAL within the infant the knowledge of God in the face of Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 4:6) at the moment of death???? Regeneration is in part a REVELATION within (2 Cor. 4:6; Mt. 16:17).

 

Sin is the cause (Gen. 2:17) and spiritual separation (death) is the consequence. Spiritual separation is separation from God or to be without God. All human beings born into this world are "without God." Regeneration is bringing separated man without God into spiritual union with God. It is just that simple.

The separated state is a DEAD state without the LIFE of God. The separated state is a DARK state without the LIGHT of God. The separated state is a DEPRAVED state without the LIGHT of God.

Spiritual union is a creative act of God that involves three positive and three negatives:

1. It is QUICKENING or making ALIVE (positive) thus removing spiritual death (negative).
2. It is ENLIGHTENING by inward REVELATION or knowing God in the person of Jesus Christ - Jn. 17:3; Mt. 16:17(positive) thus removing darkness.
3. It is being made RIGHTEOUS in spirit (Col. 3:10; Eph. 4:24; Jn. 3:6) thus an inward "washing...and renewing" man in the "image of God" (Tit. 3:5).

It is the ENLIGHTENING by direct inward revelation (2 Cor. 4:6) that creates the "substance" of faith as well as furnishes the "hope" of faith. Thus true saving or justifying faith is regenerative faith or faith created within man by direct revelation.

Whether we are speaking about Abel or Darrell it makes no difference, the PROBLEM IS THE SAME and it is UNIVERSAL (sin and spiritual separation "in Adam") and there is but only one SOLUTION and it is for all the elect "in Christ." There is no kind of salvation OUTSIDE of Christ for anyone at anytime.

PROOF - Abraham is the father or role model with regard to justification by faith "FOR ALL WHO ARE OF FAITH" and he was "in Christ" 430 years prior to Moses:

And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. - Gal. 3:17

New birth was as necessary then as now - PROOF -

But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. - Gal. 4:27