AIDS and Romans 1:24-32

Before you start screaming about the innocent children of homosexuals or drug users, consider this verse:

God said of David:

God spared not the child of David, a man after My own heart. How then will he spare the children of those who are not children of the King?

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Just something to think about! Verses please! Bible study is good for our soul!

Diane </font>[/QUOTE]Considering that this particular passage deals with homosexual sin specifically, I don't think that AIDS can automatically be the presumed punishment. The reason is because one can catch AIDS through heterosexual sin just as easily as they can through homosexual sin. Just ask Magic Johnson. We might very well state that all STD's are a result of all sexual sin in general, but I think we will have a hard time defending the idea that it is speicifically targeted at homosexuals. But, even then, how do we explain those who have sinned sexually and not contracted an STD?

Joseph Botwinick

 

AIDS is currently the only STD that cannot be treated and cured if found early enough. HPV (Cervical Cancer) can be found early and 'healed'. Syphilis used to kill, but can now be quickly treated.

The list goes on but only AIDS remains 'uncurable' at this time. </font>[/QUOTE]What happens to your theory if science finds a cure?

Joseph Botwinick

 

I have no idea. Probably as responsible as the Red Cross and other blood banks in the early days of the disease... </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah. The red cross went around having unprotected promiscuous anal sex ?

Gay men were dying from their bath-house encounters, the government asked them to stop, until they could figure out what was happening, but the gays screamed "opression", we backed off, and now little kids get the disease.

You probably don't buy the fact that they poisoned the blood supply, on purpose, to raise awareness for their disease, either, do you ?

And I know yer gonna call be hateful & lacking the love of Christ, and all other kinds of stuff, but my mind has been made up.

"It appears science and morality teach the same lesson..." Ronald Reagan </font>[/QUOTE]Bro. Curtis,

I have never heard that theory before. Do you have any evidence of this tampering? It almost reminded me when I first read it the way Jews were blamed for the Plague. The end result of that particular defamation was not very good.

Joseph Botwinick

 

There certainly are a lot of "we's" in that statement. Is there a mouse in your pocket? How in the world do you know what I did or did not do in the 80's? Where is your evidence that I didn't do my job, or even that the Church in general did not do their job? Are you saying that because the society became more wicked and payed the consequences of sin, that the Church didn't do their job? If so, let me ask you, before the flood, did Noah do his job in warning of what was to come? Just because a lost world ignores the warnings of the Christian world does not mean that Christians are not doing their jobs.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Just remember your philosophy should we have an epidemic of bubonic plague, or typhoid, or any number of other deadly diseases.

If/when it gets close to your family, I dare think you just may be a little more anxious to exterminate the cause rather than defending those who ignore sanitary precautions thereby putting you & yours at a needless risk!
</font>[/QUOTE]Speaking of which, history records a time when folks did that very thing you are suggesting:

Jewish History Sourcebook: The Black Death and the Jews 1348-1349 CE

Too bad their weren't any civil rights for the thousands of innocent folks who were slaughtered over a lie born out of fear and hatred.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Sure you haven't.

 

Sure you haven't. </font>[/QUOTE]Correct, Bro. Curtis. Now, do you have any evidence to present for this charge?

Joseph Botwinick

 

And to compare what we're talking about to Jewish oppression is a pretty good leap.

 

Do you have any evidence of your charge? And the comparison, although not perfect, is valid. You claim that Homosexuals contaminated the blood supply on purpose and the Europeans accussed the Jews of contaminating the drinking wells. Further, if you look at the language used by JWP, you will see that my comparison grows even stronger.

Joseph Botwinick

 

No, your comparison is crazy.

First of all, nobody said kill anyone. It is immature of you to suggest so.

Second, science could not have linked the Jews to the water supply. Science HAS linked the start of the spread of aids to the homosexual lifestyle.

Third, when gays were dropping dead from something nobody could identify, they screamed discrimination, and were allowed to donate blood. Given the militant, in your face style of the militant gay movement, and the God-given power of reason, you cannot be dumb enough to think they didn't know what they were doing.

 

Considering that this statement was made in the context of ridiculing the need for civil rights, I think you are incorrect in your assessment of my maturity and accuracy.

Second, science could not have linked the Jews to the water supply. Science HAS linked the start of the spread of aids to the homosexual lifestyle. [/QUOTE]

1. Defamation does not have to be proved by science in order to be deadly. At least, it sure didn't in the case of the Jews.

2. I am open to learning more about this. I have heard it said in the past that science is not sure at best, or has conflicting views, about the origins of AIDS. Would you please show me the scientific proof that you speak of?

Third, when gays were dropping dead from something nobody could identify, they screamed discrimination, and were allowed to donate blood. Given the militant, in your face style of the militant gay movement, and the God-given power of reason, you cannot be dumb enough to think they didn't know what they were doing. [/QUOTE]

Again, I don't remember ever hearing this. Perhaps I was too young at the time to realize that it happened. Would you please show me some evidence that this is true?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Nowhere did I state that promiscuity was invented in the 60's, so please, don't try to twist my words or try to make me look stupid. I find this approach all too common in people who can't prove their points. Now, do you have sources to prove that it was brought by one homosexual to America? I know there is one report that states so, though again, I don't know where it is at this particular moment, and would have to look for it again. Or are you just going by the movie "And the Band Played On", Bro, Curtis?

 

Victims? Victims are innocent persons. Most AIDS sufferers either have been involved sexually or used drug to expose themselves and their families.

NO. I would NOT choose to eat at a restaurant with an AIDS patient as a cook, server, dishwasher, etc. The AIDS virus has been found in tears.

In the case of bubonic plague, etc., our govt. would most probably reenact the ability to quarrantine whole families like they did for other conditions when I was a child. I would support that. </font>[/QUOTE]Diane, MANY AIDS patients ARE indeed victims...innocent persons...period! Many of them have never even had sexual relation, others indeed have, adulterous affairs, or just plain premarital relations. Others have ACQUIRED it through transfusions, birth, blood being spilled in accidents, etc. Some have even contracted aids by going to the dentist and having dental work done by a dentist who himself didn't even know he/she had AIDS. I know when I worked for Menards in Pekin, Illinois, I had a man from Lincoln, Illinois who was shopping there and cut his hand on sheet metal. I tried to assist him and got cut, too, while trying to get his wound to stop bleeding. His blood went all over my wound. We found out he was with his girlfriend, though he was married. I had aids testing done several times over the next few years because of that. I came back clean every time. One of my coworkers on another job coworkers acquired aids when a truck driver cut his hand during delivery of some objects and this worker tried to help stop the bleeding and get him to the nurse. This coworker is now deceased, as is the truck driver. The driver didn't know he had aids. They believe he had it transmitted to him through his wife who had received a blood transfusion in the early 1980's. It's not just a matter of "sin", and I don't understand those who can sit there in a self righteous attitude and say it is! Because of the fall of Adam, to some degree, yes. But, to just smugly say it is ALL because of sin is incorrect and sloppy theology at best!

And for anyone to say that homosexuality is worse than any other sin, they are incorrect. God may have indeed given them over, but we find that God hardened Pharaoh's heart...then there is the sin of unbelief. God says His Spirit will not always strive with man, and the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven in this life or the next....so, is it really worse? I don't think so.

My rant for the day!

 

Do you have proof of this? What is your particular source to back this claim up? From all indications from people I know, they did indeed try to get help, but they were largely ignored by the CDC and many health officials. That indeed may have put some off of trying to receive help, especially after being treated as the lepers of the Bible were.

 

This is a blanket, unproveable discourse from you TexasSky. You may believe that nobody did anything, or that Christians as a whole did nothing, but that is YOUR take on the subject, and probably not factual in the least. Who says that we didn't tell them about Christ? Who says we didn't try to reach out to them? Who says their blood is on our hands? Where are your sources to back up such blanket statements?

 

And you have no way of knowing that they did, Bro. Curtis. You have set yourself up as the final authority, judge and jury on this particular subject. Please, as Joseph asked, back up your assertions....facts, sources, etc. Thank you.

 

Perhaps you could point out which one of my statements is wrong. How did the AIDS virus get spread ? Why wouldn't we shut down the bath houses when this first started ? How did the virus get into the blood supply ? And my biggest question, when their gay bath house friends started dying gruesome, painful deaths, why didn't they stop ?

And again, I never said treat them like lepers, kill them, or anything even remotely like that, so I don't know why everyone keeps going there, but to put the blame for this awful epidemic anywhere else is dishonest. I say if the government hadn't worried about the reactions & protetsts from the gay community, and agressively isolated the sources in the very beginning, a lot of innocent people would still be alive.

 

Bro. Curtis,

Do you have any evidence?

Thanks,

Joseph Botwinick