Featured Forsaken in Matthew 27:46

There is no question that Jesus remained both man and God. However, his humanity is not deified and his diety is not humanified and that is the issue with your view. Jesus did not suffer death in his deity because deity cannot die. Jesus suffered death in his humanity as that is precisely why God assumed humanity for that very reason. Although they are joined in one person they are not to be confused with each other so that one cancels out the other or that one becomes the other. So, God did not die on the cross as God cannot suffer death as God is "spirit" and for God to suffer death as a "spirit" is spiritual separation from Himself. However, THE MAN could suffer death in its fullest without God suffering death. So yes, it is THE MAN that died, thus suffered the condemnation of sin which is death, thus suffered the just wrath of God which is death and did so in spirit, soul and body which is humanity but not in deity.

 

What challenge?

You are trying to separate the cause from the consequence and just deal with the consequence. He wasn't delivered by God because he was "made to be sin" and that is why the Psalmist gives the answer to "why hast thou forsaken me" to be "for thou art holy."

 

The humanity of Christ can physically grow and mentally grow in knowledge and wisdom but deity cannot! Your view of his hypostatic union is that one must be all inclusive of the other and that is simply false.

 

No it doesn't! God is IMMUTABLE and your view demands he is mutable. Your view is merging deity and humanity together as one nature which is deified humanity. That is false and it can easily be proven to be false as his humanity grew in wisdom and knowledge but that is not possible for his deity and so there exists a division between the two so that humanity is not deity.

No, God did not experience PHYSICAL death because God is not physical but a "spirit" and he is IMMUTABLY so.

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You are confusing the enabling power of the Spirit with the internal fellowship of the Spirit. God's Spirit has enable many unregenerate persons to accomplish His will who were not in "fellowship" with His Spirit. The "fellowship" between the human spirit of Jesus and God was broken due to being made sin.

straw man challenge! Remember, the Spirit can still dwell with in us, and yet our fellowship with him can be broken due to sin. Jesus did not cease to be God, but the fellowship between the human spirit of Jesus and God was broken due to being made sin. "why hast thou forsaken me" does not refer to being left in his sufferings BECAUSE JESUS HAD REPEATEDLY STATED THAT HE HAD COME FOR THAT VERY REASON TO SUFFER AND DIE ON THE CROSS. That question by Christ was designed to demonstrate that God was holy and that is why he forsook him in the intimate sense of fellowship.



Remember, the Spirit can still dwell with in us, and yet our fellowship with him can be broken due to sin.

Absurd!

You have been given the Passage in Psa. 22:1 and have abused and perverted it, jerked it out context and emptied of its true Biblical meaning.

1. The Father is offering his Son as a "sin offering" but to satisfy his just penalty against sin. The act of offering does not convey fellowship but just retribution against sin - death - and the Father was "pleased" to bruise him, to inflict grief upon the soul of the Son as it "satisfied" the justice of God against sin.

2. The Holy Spirit did not depart from Jesus, but in the moment he was made to be sin there was no fellowship and that is the real reason for the Psalm 22:1 agonizing cry.

3. The Holy Spirit's enabling power and fellowship are two different things that you conflate and confuse.

 

Straw men challenges as no one denies that God departed from Jesus in the sense he no longer was God in the flesh! We are not talking about separation of substance but separation of fellowship between the divine and human.

Instead, I am saying that THE HUMANITY of Christ is not DEITY and DEITY is not HUMANITY but your view demands they are one and the same.

 

There are multiple questions asked in verse 1 (but you have chosen a version that does not put it in a form of a question). However, the only contextual answer given in the context you have omitted and that is found with the word "but" in verse 3.

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

 

You need to go back to theology 101 and learn the doctrine of the hypostatic union as what you are teaching is complete perversion of that doctrine. The hypostatic union brings TWO DIFFERENT NATURES together in one Person but it does not make ONE NATURE! Your view is demanding that TWO NATURES have come together not merely in ONE PERSON but in ONE NATURE.

God is "spirit" and He is immutable. The NATURE of God did not become HUMAN NATURE nor did the HUMAN NATURE become DIVINE NATURE but they coexisted in the same Person without confusing either. Your doctrine demands they are CONFUSED into ONE nature.

The Divine and human CO-EXIST but are not EQUAL in their coexistence as any Sunday school child knows that the humanity of Christ GREW in wisdom and knowledge and yet that is not possible for the DIVINE nature without God ceasing to be God as he is immutably omnicient.

 

Then believe your own definition and quit repudiating it by your own words and here are your own words:

You said that God cannot be physical (flesh is physical) because God is spirit and immutably so.

Yes, I said God's nature (spirit) cannot be changed to a human nature (physical) but they COEXIST without confusion of natures. But here you are repudiating that by this rebuttal! Any sunday school kid knows that Jesus "GREW IN WISDOM AND IN KNOWLEGE" but that is not possible with the divine nature as it is IMMUTABLY OMNISCIENT!

God is "spirit" and He is immutable. The NATURE of God did not become HUMAN NATURE nor did the HUMAN NATURE become DIVINE NATURE but they coexisted in the same Person without confusing either. Your doctrine demands they are CONFUSED into ONE nature.

The Divine and human CO-EXIST but are not EQUAL in their coexistence as any Sunday school child knows that the humanity of Christ GREW in wisdom and knowledge and yet that is not possible for the DIVINE nature without God ceasing to be God as he is immutably omnicient.


Therefore, the humanity of Christ can die but God cannot die as that would be spiritual separation from his own essence which is spirit. Hence, the humanity provided a different function on the cross than his deity and the humanity could suffer spiritual separation, meaning his human spirit could experience broken fellowship with Deity causing him to cry out in agony "eli, eli........." due to being made sin as the SECOND ADAM, in his humanity.

 

Got to go! Will pick up on this later.

 

Absurd and directly repudiated by scripture itself! The divine nature is immutably omniscient but the human nature is not and therefore Jesus does not possess ONE nature which is both divine and nature. They co-exist but they are not one and the same, which your definition demands a mixture of divine and human as one nature. That is false!

Baloney!!!! It is right on topic because your whole view depends upon this confusion and perversion of Christ on the cross.

More baloney, as I teach no such thing. I have explained this to you twice in two previous posts and you simply ignore the explanations. The divine nature does not vacate the Person of Jesus Christ on the cross. He remains both God and man on the cross. However, the human "spirit" of Christ suffers disfellowship from the Divine when being "made to be sin" and that is the cause for the cry (Psa. 22:1). The human nature can act dependently and contrary to the divine nature as in the case of mutable growth in wisdom and knowledge. The divine nature can LIMIT the human nature exercise of DIVINE ability and therefore the human soul can experience Divine LIMITATIONS such as the sense of fellowship with the Divine in the human soul.

Your interpretation of Psa. 22:1 is absurd. It is because He is not preserved from suffering for our sins, there is a question being asked "eli, eli....." and the ONLY contextual answer is provided "but thou art holy". The suffering was not merely physical as God says that he offers his "SOUL" as an offering FOR SIN and it is his SOUL that suffers "He shall see of the travail of his soul." That travail of soul is expressed in the words "eli, eli......." when he suffers the loss of fellowship - the sense of the loss of God's presence in his human soul due to sin.

It is the MAN that must pay the penalty - death - spiritual/physical and it is the Deity that enables it to do so.