Featured How's Your Hermeneutic?

You know, I still walk around my old neighbor and I speak to some older Catholics who while pissed off at the RC Church ( my old parish church) they still maintain a tribal connection, like associating being Italian, Polish, German, Irish to being Catholic. Well what if I brought them back there but started a reformation movement. They just got rid of their Gay Priest and have no real strong pastor... we could probably change that whole thing around. These people are so disgusted with this fruit loops robbing them and well as trying to make the place gay that they might just be open to some revival... what do you think?

 

I happen to believe such a thing is best-accomplished working through a local church that can provide support and accountability. These type of things are difficult for individuals because there is no spiritual oversight. If you go back to the post where I discussed the Bible study my mother became involved with during the late 1970's, it was full of problems. The leaders of the study were mixing Roman Catholicism and the gospel. It caused a lot of confusion. When the Newark Archdiocese finally pulled the plug on Saint Antoninus, many of the believers found their way to solid Bible-believing churches. The flip side of that is there were some individuals that remained trapped within Roman Catholicism. Not everyone made the break and that was sad. I know this may sound harsh but I believe Roman Catholicism is a synagogue of Satan. The last thing I would do is try to start a work in such an environment as an outsider. If I was a practicing Roman Catholic and came to faith while being so, it would be natural to try and evangelize those around me.

I think a good strategy would be to talk to your Roman Catholic friends directly. Perhaps start a Bible study at your home. That is something many missionaries do in foreign countries and it works well.

 

No, I do not treat God's word, being the Law and the Testimony with the same "care and respect" I give to "any other" text. The Bible [KJB in English] is infinitely superior to all other texts, is the final judge of all other texts, and thus there is reverence for the Bible [KJB], rather than say to some historical work [such as History of the Reformation, by J. H. Merle D'Aubigny, or The Two Republics, by A. T. Jones, etc], or even religious historical works [Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan [excellent literary work, and religious parable, but it ain't scripture, and I don't treat it as such], etc].

Deuteronomy 32:4 KJB - He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.​

When I come to God's word, I am coming to God, because it is His word, and I pray humbly, asking for the Holy Spirit, believing [Matthew 7:7,11, 21:22; 2 Timothy 3:14-17 KJB], and in a teachable spirit, before I read it, whereas I do not pray before reading other texts which are not God's word, not even Pilgrim's Progress [as much as I think everyone ought to read the original at least once].

If I do not pray to God, to understand His word, for He is the giver of understanding and wisdom [Exodus 28:3, 31:3,6, 35:31, 36:1; 1 Kings 3:5-15, 4:29, 5:12 KJB]; then evil angels will come to my side, to lead me astray, for I will then be trusting in my own wisdom, which is no wisdom [Proverbs 3:5 KJB].

The Scriptural Test:

“... not I, but Christ ...” [Galatians 2:20],

“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me [Christ Jesus].” [John 5:39],

“If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.” [John 7:17],

“... Every one that is of the truth heareth my [Christ Jesus'] voice.” [John 18:37]

“He [Christ Jesus] must increase, but I must decrease.” [John 3:30],

“Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” [1 Thessalonians 5:21],

“... in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.” [Matthew 18:16],

“And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.” [1 Corinthians 14:32],

“... Believe in the LORD your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper.” [2 Chronicles 20:20],

“To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” [Isaiah 8:20],

“It is written...” [Matthew 4:4],

“... thus saith the LORD ...” [Haggai 2:6],

“... the scripture cannot be broken.” [John 10:35],

“...God, that cannot lie...” [Titus 1:2],

“That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie...” [Hebrews 6:18],

“All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” [2 Timothy 3:16],

“The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.” [Psalms 12:6],

“[As for] God, his way [is] perfect; the word of the LORD [is] tried: he [is] a buckler to all them that trust in him.” [2 Samuel 22:31],

“[As for] God, his way [is] perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: he [is] a buckler to all those that trust in him.” [Psalms 18:30],

“LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.” [Psalms 119:89],

And we are warned in Scripture about our correct use of Scripture, and that we are not to “wrest” [2 Peter 3:16], neither mishandle it deceitfully:

“Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” [Proverbs 30:6]​

So also of the Ten Commandments:

“Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.” [Deuteronomy 4:2]​

In the Revelation of Jesus Christ, again [which covers the "Everlasting Gospel" from Creation to Re-Creation, Beginning to End]:

“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:” [Revelation 22:18]

“And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.” [Revelation 22:19]​

For even Balaam knew better, for he wisely said:

“And Balaam answered and said unto the servants of Balak, If Balak would give me his house full of silver and gold, I cannot go beyond the word of the LORD my God, to do less or more.” [Numbers 22:18]

“If Balak would give me his house full of silver and gold, I cannot go beyond the commandment of the LORD, to do [either] good or bad of mine own mind; [but] what the LORD saith, that will I speak?” [Numbers 24:13]​

Even another messenger of the LORD is clear:

“...Yet no man has a right to add to or subtract from any other book written by inspiration of God. ...” - Early Writings, p. 137.3 or Spiritual Gifts. Volume 1, p. 9.4​

Therefore, let us clearly understand that:

“... no prophesy of the scripture is of any private interpretation...” [2 Peter 1:20],​

Let us be like the more noble Bereans, which were:

“... more noble than those in Thessalonica...” [Acts 17:11],​

even,

“... rightly dividing the word of truth...” [2 Timothy 2:15],​

Let us follow the Commandments of Jesus, so that we:

“Quench not the Spirit.” [1 Thessalonians 5:19],​

and,

“... grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.” [Ephesians 4:30].​

Now let us come together unto God in humility, meekness, supplication and prayer, seeking and asking to know more fully His will, for He says,

“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD...” [Isaiah 1:18].​

 

God, in scripture [KJB] has given the rules to interpret scripture [KJB], for it is He Himself, that is the interpreter of His own words, as per:

Genesis 40:8 KJB - And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you.​

God, defines His word::

Isaiah 28:10 KJB - For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:​

If it is not read in this way, rightly divided, [an example is given in Isaiah 8:11-12 KJB], we will stumble:

Isaiah 28:13 KJB But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.​

All teachings, conclusions and every spirits, must be tested by the Law of God and His testimony:

Isaiah 8:20 KJB -To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1 Corinthians 14:32 KJB - And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

1 Corinthians 14:33 KJB - For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

1 John 4:1 KJB - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1 John 4:2 KJB - Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1 John 4:3 KJB - And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1 John 4:4 KJB - Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 John 4:5 KJB - They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1 John 4:6 KJB - We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Jesus Christ took upon himself the sinful fallen flesh of men [Romans 8:3 KJB], but He Himself sinned not. Anyone teaching otherwise has the spirit which is not of God.​

 

God's word is perfectly balanced, and one part may be substituted, when rightly divided, for one part which is equal with the other:

Ezekiel 18:25 KJB - Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

Ezekiel 18:29 KJB - Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
​

For instance:

Isaiah 43:7 KJB - Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

[.A] I have created him,

[.B] I have formed him,

[.C] I have made him.​

1 John 1:1 KJB - That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

[.A] which we have seen with our eyes

[.B] which we have looked upon​

1 John 1:2 KJB - (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us

1 John 1:3 KJB - That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

1 John 1:4 KJB - And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

1 John 1:5 KJB - This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

[.A] bear witness, and shew unto you

[.B] manifested unto us

[.C] seen and heard declare we unto you

[.D] these things write we unto you

[.E] this is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you

[.A] the life …

[.B] that eternal life … with the Father, ...

[.C] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ

[.D] God … in him ...
​

Those are the similitudes, samenesses, but notice also, the oppositions, the negatives, which also help in defining:

[.A] God is light

[.B] in him is no darkness at all​

1 Peter 3:10 KJB - For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

1 Peter 3:11 KJB - Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.

[.A] let him refrain his tongue from evil

[.B] let him eschew evil

[.A] let him seek peace

[.B] ensue it​

God is the architect, and has set the rules, and lines:

Isaiah 28:17 KJB - Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

Isaiah 44:13 KJB - The carpenter stretcheth out his rule; he marketh it out with a line; he fitteth it with planes, and he marketh it out with the compass, and maketh it after the figure of a man, according to the beauty of a man; that it may remain in the house.​

For there is a right and wrong answer, a true and a false understanding:

Jesus said:

John 17:17 KJB - Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

John 17:19 KJB - And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.​

For Error cannot ever sanctify.

Jesus Himself, also went about correcting error and misunderstanding, and I follow after Him.

Matthew 22:29 KJB - Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Mark 12:24 KJB - And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Mark 12:27 KJB - "... ye therefore do greatly err."​

etc.

Jesus is very concerned about right answers, and Yes, the word of God may be "rightly divided" [but it also means there are those who wrongly divided it]:

Luke 7:43 KJB - Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

Luke 10:26-28 KJB - [26] He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? [27] And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. [28] And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Luke 20:21 KJB - And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly:

2 Timothy 2:15 KJB - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
​

In Genesis, we see a rule at the beginning, that in God's word there is 'contrast', between the good and the not good, even by separation of Light from darkness [God "rightly divided" even there], and tree from tree [your Bible is made with paper, trees].

In Genesis, we see the Alpha rule, - the first defining of words, days, experiences, etc. In Revelation, we see the final Omega rule, the closing definition of words, days, experiences.

We see the laws and orders God has set from the beginning, in seeds, to kinds, etc. Even as there are "kinds" of music, etc as seen in Daniel, and music may give birth to music [even as there are right and wrong kinds of music].

We see we may compare shadows and types [Colossians 2:17 KJB], to body and antiypes [Romans 5:14; 1 Corinthans 10:6,11; Colossians 2:17; Hebrews 8:5, 9:24, 10:1; 1 Peter 3:21 KJB, see also Exodus 25:9,40; Numbers 8:4 to Hebrews 8:5 KJB, etc], and local to global, and learning from the natural first, and then to follow by the spiritual [1 Corinthians 15:44-46 KJB].

 

Another, more complex:

Judges 9:2 KJB - Speak, I pray you, in the ears of all the men of Shechem, Whether is better for you, either that all the sons of Jerubbaal, which are threescore and ten persons, reign over you, or that one reign over you? remember also that I am your bone and your flesh.

Judges 9:4 KJB - And they gave him threescore and ten pieces of silver out of the house of Baalberith, wherewith Abimelech hired vain and light persons, which followed him.

Judges 9:5 KJB - And he went unto his father's house at Ophrah, and slew his brethren the sons of Jerubbaal, being threescore and ten persons, upon one stone: notwithstanding yet Jotham the youngest son of Jerubbaal was left; for he hid himself.

Judges 9:18 KJB -And ye are risen up against my father's house this day, and have slain his sons, threescore and ten persons, upon one stone, and have made Abimelech, the son of his maidservant, king over the men of Shechem, because he is your brother

Judges 9:24 KJB -That the cruelty done to the threescore and ten sons of Jerubbaal might come, and their blood be laid upon Abimelech their brother, which slew them; and upon the men of Shechem, which aided him in the killing of his brethren.

Judges 9:56 KJB -Thus God rendered the wickedness of Abimelech, which he did unto his father, in slaying his seventy brethren:

[.A] threescore and ten sons

[.B] his sons, threescore and ten persons

[.C] threescore and ten sons

[.D] seventy brethren​

With this, we can even see how the Bible defines “score”, as twenty. Consider:

threescore and ten = seventy​

subtract, “take away” [Proverbs 25:4], “ten” from both sides; for the “ways of the LORD are equal” [Ezekiel 18:25] and “my [the LORD's] ways equal” [Ezekiel 18:29].

threescore and ten “take away” ten = seventy “take away” ten

threescore = sixty​

then “rightly divide” [2 Timothy 2:15] both sides by “three”, keeping them in equality.

threescore divided by three = sixty divided by three

score = twenty​

Didn't even need a dictionary, nor Abraham Lincoln [fourscore and seven years ago...]

[.A] slew his brethren

[.B] slain his sons

[.C] the cruelty done to … sons

[.D] slew them … in the killing of his brethren

[.E] the wickedness … in slaying … brethren​

A different example, one about “meter”, a musical sound, or cadence, movement, accenting upon certain portions of words, which make for easier memorization:

Psalms 73:2 KJB - But as for me, my feet were almost gone; my steps had well nigh slipped.​

[A] 'Iambic' meter [there are many types of 'meter', this is one example]

But as … … for me, … …

my feet … … were al … … most gone:

my steps … … had well … … nigh slipped.​

The accent is on the second words. In fact, raise your hand in a chopping motion and follow along, raising the hand on the first word, lowering on the second word, and see how it 'bounces' along, making for easy memorization.

This works really well in the psalms, since they are written for music, but it is also found in many other places in scripture. Notice, also the syllable locations and notice their parallels:

[.A] my feet

[.B] my steps​

[.A] were almost gone

[.B] had well nigh slipped.​

Try some other ones, like Isaiah 14:12; 1 John 3:24; 1 John 2:22, etc. One will find Rhythm, Cadence, Meter, Parallels, Syllable matching, Repetition, etc.

Another example, a more mixed version of syllabication:

John 16:29 KJB - His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.

[.A] 3 sets of 4, single syllables:

[.A] His … di … sci … ples

[.A] said … un … to … him

[.A] Lo … now … speak … est​

[.B] 3 sets of 3, single syllables:​

[.B] thou … plain … ly

[.B] and … speak … est

[.B] no … pro ...verb.​

 

I pray no one ever takes my personal statements and treats them as they treat God's word. I am not God. They need to take God's word as God's word, for there is a difference between the personal words of Nathan, and those of God through Nathan [2 Samuel 7:3, 4-17 KJB].

 

When I prayerfully study a word in scripture [KJB], for full understanding, I look for every text and instance [asking God for insight, wisdom, understanding and a heart to obey], that that particular word in English is used [in all its forms, past, present, future, singular, plural, etc, and I also look at a KJC and look for everywhere that specific word is translated, and its associating words, in the OT and NT], and once I have read each from the OT and NT, Genesis to Revelation, considering each in its proper sphere, and surrounding words, and place it within the context of the other rules God has given, I have what God has given that word to mean, from Alpha to Omega. This goes for each letter, word, sentence, idea, theology, doctrine, practice, belief, and so on.

 

OK you are not listening.....the RCC is an incubator for people to come out of pretty much dazed and confused, and looking for more.Im sure you can discuss some really glaring issues with penetrating honesty without the insults.

So largely because they have been conditioned to rely on the sacraments and teachings of their church hierarchy, for religious formation and knowledge of their faith. For many Catholics, the Word of God is less authoritative than the teachings of their Pope, bishop or pastor. It is as though the bible is unimportant unless it is backed up by the authority of the priest.This certainly is not a bright side of Catholicism.

 

We are already condemned, He is trying to RE -deem RE concile

The failure is not on Jesus

2Pe 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, notwilling that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

Here is an example for OP

Jhn 10:30
I and my Father are one.
Jhn 10:31
Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Jhn 10:32
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Jhn 10:33¶
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Jhn 10:34¶
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? Quoting from ( (Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.)
Jhn 10:35
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Jhn 10:36
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Jhn 10:37
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Jhn 10:38
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Jhn 10:39
Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

The controversial verse, 34 is usully changed from "gods" to "rulers or "judges" because of usage of "elohyim" the word from Psalms 82 also used in these type verses.

Exo 21:6
Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; H430 he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Exo 22:8
If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges, H430 to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour's goods

But to use "rulers" is insulting to Jesus in the John 10 conversation. He was accused of blasphemy, v33, yet many think His reply dealt with "judges" . Those that accussed we sometime judges anyway. We know He meant "gods" because of the response in V 39. They understood it was "gods" .

To consider it was "rulers or judges" is to promote that 1) Jesus did not understand the accusation or 2) Jesus made a mistake in the answer. Both and insult to God

We often try to understand scripture appropriately but we should NEVER change the meaning to fit our understanding. It is better to say I do not completely understand but still believe.

 

Just for the record, those questions were the Calvinist response you requested to the verse you posted.

 

It is not really my ‘position’, it is more just an observation. Why don’t you just read how the author of Hebrews 2:12 used the verse from Psalms 22:22 and give me your opinion on whether Hebrews is, or is not guilty of what you complained about in the OP?

 

You have mis-read my statement, purposefully or no, and the intent thereof.

I said:

"... No, I do not treat God's word, being the Law and the Testimony with the same "care and respect" I give to "any other" text. The Bible [KJB in English] is infinitely superior to all other texts, is the final judge of all other texts, and thus there is reverence for the Bible [KJB], rather than say to some historical work [such as History of the Reformation, by J. H. Merle D'Aubigny, or The Two Republics, by A. T. Jones, etc], or even religious historical works [Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan [excellent literary work, and religious parable, but it ain't scripture, and I don't treat it as such], etc].

Deuteronomy 32:4 KJB - He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he. ..."​

I also deny the accusation and the strawman argument of your definition of 'KJVO' with which you pin me with. I have never held to your pseudo-definition of 'KJVO', and therefore refuse to wear your label.

I was actually, as anyone with eyes to see, and who can read the plain English of my responses, was comparing the word of God [in English the KJB] to all other texts which are not the word of God, and even cited several specific examples of historical material for comparison, between the word of God [in English, the KJB] and that which was not the word of God. That you deny that there is a "perfect" [Deuteronomy 32:4 KJB] word of God, in English, comes through loud and clear, and you may freely hold to your stubborn ill-informed, and unsubstantiated opinion, as much as in gross error it is [though in your theological position, there is no such thing as 'error', 'sin', only 'god's will' [I lowercase this, because the 'god' you continually portray to me through your theology, is not the God, JEHOVAH Elohiym, I serve, and worship, the God of love, freedom, free will, choice, self-sacrifice, redemption, true Father], but yet my intent was to directly address the OP in what it was asking [even if wrongly asked].

Call me what you will, it is your prerogative, and if the religion which you follow was the true [which it is far from being, as I test from the KJB], I would rather be called a 'cult' and follow the religion I have, and the book I have, instead, than suffer under the malevolent, despotic, cruel, bitter, cold, callous, unjust, slave-master of a 'god' [which is why the modern translations don't generally read 'servant' but 'slaves', just as the NWT] who could not possibly ever be 'love', since according to you, everything is 'god's doing', what then was the purpose of Jesus?, it couldn't be to 'fix' what your 'god' did, since it is all 'god's will' to begin with, designed by that heartless machinist, everything ticking away in the manner 'god' wanted it, piece against piece, to show how great 'i am' - to himself. Such is truly something to weep about, and to pity, for such is an terrible idol.

You have my pity, really. You may still have my friendship though, even though you obviously have a deep -seated hatred that I pray you re-consider.

 

Hopefully you meant had been.

 

Baptists are Protestants.

 

So Baptists started as Catholics?