How's Your Hermeneutic?

[HankD]

I've seen countless people treat tiny portions of God's Word like one would treat the contents of a "fortune cookie". I've done it myself.

It's always done in a way in which ignores context. @HankD argued for it in another thread which sparked this one.

In the service I was an I ching enthusiast along with the philosophy of change which indeed has a bit of realty attached to it.

Also, I ching (tossing of lots) is much better than fortune cookies at least there is a tiny portion of God's word to support it.

Fortune cookies - consulting a medium (long distance on paper of course)?

OTOH
Proverbs 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD

 

[Scarlett O.]

Do you read the Bible with the care and respect we would give any other text or do you treat it like a personal basket of fortune cookies? Do you take a half-sentence from anywhere in the Bible and claim its meaning, independent of its context? Is that Okay? Is it what God intended?

Would you be happy with someone treating your statements in the same manner you treat God's Word?

*sigh* ..... ok, I'll bite, I guess that makes me a glutton for punishment since the OP believes me to be legalistic in emphasizing daily Bible reading.

I was just sharing with someone else on another board my own hermeneutical approach to God's word in trying to explain to him that good and godly interpretation is not of the devil. He, as a KJVO, was saying that the word connects to Hermes and therefore hermeneutics is a blasphemous undertaking. But I digress. [There are helpless people on the internet - but I'm not telling you anything new.]

Here is my own daily hermeneutical steps. And by-the-by, this year I am doing the Baptist Board daily Bible readings.

Today, I am going to be reading in Deuteronomy, Psalms, Matthew, and Romans.

[1] Pray before reading each passage for God to bless the reading of his word.
[2] Read it.
[3] Take notes.
[4] Read any commentary in my study Bible. Read Warren Wiersbe's commentary from his book.
[5] Read the passage again. Decide if the commentary is spot on or not.
[6] Read the quoted passages if there are any such as when Paul quotes Old Testament.
[7] Ask myself, "What in the world does this have to do with me?"
[8] Write those notes down.
[9] If I have questions, write those questions down to research other parts of the Bible later as the Bible best interprets itself.
[10] Read it one more time it needed or difficult to understand.

 

[HankD]

accusations fly - We all know the old saying about pointing a finger - four more are pointing at oneself.

As for tiny portions of God's Word, one of my favorite (perhaps the favorite) as an all encompassing foundational life verse:

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

 

[Scarlett O.]

John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

I really like that one.

Here's one that almost knocked me out of my chair a few weeks ago. I've read it before and remember it, but reading it this time gave me a physical reaction that I cannot explain.

Acts 19:15 - "But the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I recognize, but who are you?”

 

[InTheLight]

Do you read the Bible with the care and respect we would give any other text or do you treat it like a personal basket of fortune cookies? Do you take a half-sentence from anywhere in the Bible and claim its meaning, independent of its context? Is that Okay? Is it what God intended?

Would you be happy with someone treating your statements in the same manner you treat God's Word?

You must mean like the way Calvinists appropriate Ezekiel 36, a passage about how God is going to renew the nation of Israel and twist and distort it into meaning God must give people nowadays a new, regenerated heart before they can possibly believe the gospel. You mean like that sort of claiming a meaning outside of its context?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[utilyan]

If he wants everyone to be saved then he is an enept failure

"Define Danger" --God.

 

[utilyan]

Lets hear the Calvinist take on this scripture:

Luke 11

13“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”


Calvinist Answer is ZERO. Is that what Jesus is implying?

 

[agedman]

Lets hear the Calvinist take on this scripture:

Luke 11

13“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”


Calvinist Answer is ZERO. Is that what Jesus is implying?

When was the last time a earthy Dad gave an eternal gift to a child?

Never.

So, although earthy have all the creation to select a gift, it is not comparable to that the Father presents as the gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[utilyan]

When was the last time a earthy Dad gave an eternal gift to a child?

Never.

So, although earthy have all the creation to select a gift, it is not comparable to that the Father presents as the gift of the Holy Spirit.

To summarize you are saying:

Gift of the holy spirit is a greater gift.

No kidding.

Now how much more does God gift the holy spirit to those WHO ASK FOR IT?

ZERO?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Lets hear the Calvinist take on this scripture:

Luke 11

13“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”


Calvinist Answer is ZERO. Is that what Jesus is implying?

babbling again I see. Try Ephesians 2:8-9. Augustine always stressed it.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

"Define Danger" --God.

Define Gods Mercy

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Lets hear the Calvinist take on this scripture:

Luke 11

13“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”


Calvinist Answer is ZERO. Is that what Jesus is implying?

Lets hear the catholic take on this Scripture,

For He said to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

 

[utilyan]

Define Gods Mercy

Mankind's worst sin is like a infant who forcibly grabs your finger and gnaws it with a toothless mouth.

You wouldn't slap the child for attacking you. You defend it even when it has no knowledge of what is good.

The distance between you and that infant is pretty great, but the proportion is greater between you and God. You are more an infant to him then a infant is to you.

You think a baby gripping you finger tightly against your will is CUTE?

"If he wants everyone to be saved then he is an enept failure" That line is CUTER.

Your sin does no harm to God, but you suffer from sin. You get punked around by fear and ignorance.


God commands all not to sin.

Does God want me to sin?

Matthew 5

19“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.



Every act of evil you ever committed was 100% stupid.

If you were to take a hammer and bang your hand with it, that would be dumb, if you did it again it would be dumber. If you sin that would be 1000x dumber.

Sin is not something anyone would do in their right mind. It requires immaturity.

If there was a physical pain connected to sin as with a hammer to the hand, sure we would SIN WAY LESS.

But we would miss the gist of what makes sin a sin.


God is not a fussy hard to please megalomaniac, He's father first.

 

[utilyan]

Lets hear the catholic take on this Scripture,

For He said to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Amen. God can have mercy on none if he wants. Mercy on EVERYONE if he wants. Mercy on all the in between if he wants.

Same goes for Compassion.

Its by Jesus Christ I know the answer is MERCY and COMPASSION for all.

How do you jump the gun to damn anyone?

Calvinist says ITS A MIRACLE, SHOCKING, SURPRISE that God would have mercy on a wretch like me.

Its a SHOCK because he expects GOD to have mercy on none.

The Calvinist prayer is Dear God thank you for just being HALF THE JERK rather then a COMPLETE JERK I expected.

I word it this way because you don't see the insult hiding behind FALSE HUMILITY.


My case is the opposite.


I am not surprised God has mercy and compassion on everyone. I wouldn't be SHOCKED or ever say "CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?!? God is GOOD"

I would not be surprised if GOD is the PERFECT HERO you always hoped in your heart but you were to frightened to express.

EARTH WIND AND FIRE,

I want you to be the guy who brings up the charges against me on judgment day.


I can see you walk up to God,

Lord I got a funny case for you, This reprobate utilyan here, He thought you were such a good good thing, so loving caring and powerful, he actually believed you would save the entire world. Can you believe that trash?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Amen. God can have mercy on none if he wants. Mercy on EVERYONE if he wants. Mercy on all the in between if he wants.

Same goes for Compassion.

Its by Jesus Christ I know the answer is MERCY and COMPASSION for all.

How do you jump the gun to damn anyone?

Calvinist says ITS A MIRACLE, SHOCKING, SURPRISE that God would have mercy on a wretch like me.

Its a SHOCK because he expects GOD to have mercy on none.

The Calvinist prayer is Dear God thank you for just being HALF THE JERK rather then a COMPLETE JERK I expected.

I word it this way because you don't see the insult hiding behind FALSE HUMILITY.


My case is the opposite.


I am not surprised God has mercy and compassion on everyone. I wouldn't be SHOCKED or ever say "CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?!? God is GOOD"

I would not be surprised if GOD is the PERFECT HERO you always hoped in your heart but you were to frightened to express.

EARTH WIND AND FIRE,

I want you to be the guy who brings up the charges against me on judgment day.


I can see you walk up to God,

Lord I got a funny case for you, This reprobate utilyan here, He thought you were such a good good thing, so loving caring and powerful, he actually believed you would save the entire world. Can you believe that trash?

Why...salvation does not depend on any persons desire or effort but on Gods mercy ....again read Romans 9:6-18.

 

[Reformed]

how God is going to renew the nation of Israel

I am a Calvinist and I do not believe God is going to renew the nation of Israel.

God must give people nowadays a new, regenerated heart before they can possibly believe the gospel.

I am a Calvinist and I do not point to Ezekiel 36:26 as a primary text on regeneration preceding faith. That verse explains that it is God who does the work of imparting spiritual life, but I I believe Ephesians 2 is a better passage than Ezekiel 36 to prove that regeneration precedes faith.

Calvinists are not a monolithic group.

 

[utilyan]

Why...salvation does not depend on any persons desire or effort but on Gods mercy ....again read Romans 9:6-18.

Brother I can't even sneeze among other things without the will of God.

You are giving me too much credit.

I never gave myself my desire or effort, I am not God.

If God never created me, What good or evil could i do? Obviously the entire outcome is God's credit.




The love in your heart that isn't a alien ingredient, That is God given.

Does anyone's damnation come from their desire and effort of evil?


Our views of Salvation may differ. Because I see you saved when you no longer sin.

Its like saying being cured of CANCER doesn't depend on your having cancer but on the Doctor's mercy.

SURE thats TRUE. But that doesn't mean you KEEP cancer.


One can have a desire and effort for going out to have fornication. God's mercy can still intervene and save the person.

That doesn't mean when salvation is complete he still wants fornication.


When we say stop sinning as GOD COMMANDED us to tell you. Is that our credit? Could his MEANS of correction be another person?

Can God command us to correct yourself?
Jesus says:
........ first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.

Hold on Jesus, you mean first YOU take the log and planks out first, I can't take credit for anything good.


Jesus will tell a man pick up your mat and walk, stretch out your arm, rise from your sleep. He tells them to do it.

So when they do who's desire and effort is that?

Where is the guy who answers back NO Jesus leave me alone! and still gets cured.

 

[utilyan]

babbling again I see. Try Ephesians 2:8-9. Augustine always stressed it.

Ephesians 2

8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. "

God saved me because he loves me. Sounds like the same reason I would save you if you were hurt or something, I wouldn't give you a bill.


“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”

I challenged a question. The answer is ZERO right? I get the impression Calvinist are AFRAID to give a straight answer.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You appear to have an ongoing battle running with people you call “Calvinists” ... I prefer to call them Salvation by Grace or Doctrines of Grace people These, myself included, have a very systematic theology stance that you continually poke fun at...I personally believe you don’t understand it fully and use your Catholic Doctrines as a measurement tool to critique the other theology.... and you do that cause you are unable to grasp DoG so you just criticize it.

Let me start with Atonement. When I was an RC I was taught “universal redemption” —- the belief that Jesus died for all and that the only thing that keeps them from the benefits of his death is their unbelief or lack of faith. We DoG believers affirm that Jesus died for a select number of people, those whom the Father specifically had given Him, that His atonement accomplishes their salvation, and therefore that all of these are certain to be saved. DoG people all affirm that the value of Jesus death was so great-in fact, infinite, that it is more than sufficient to atone for all the people in all ages of this world. Therefore the value of the death of Jesus the Christ is not limited in any way. His atonement is of infinite value.

So when you hear someone speak of limited atonement (used in the old TULIP acrostic) throw that away... it is erroneous. You can substitute it for Particular Redemption or what I prefer Definate Atonement.

Now let me stop here at this point and ask if I am making any sense to you. We 5 Point (Doctrines of Grace) people are very exacting and what I have emphases are important in understanding our scriptural understanding of Systematic Theology.

 

[JonC]

Brother I can't even sneeze among other things without the will of God.

You are giving me too much credit.

So, in a nutshell your argument is that God makes you sneeze; that He's the Author of allergies? What of the man who decides to live in an area high in pollen? Or who has non-hypoallergenic pets by His own free choice?