Speaking in Tongues Continued

Ray Berrian,

Check your inbox. I just sent you a private message.

Mike

 

Bible-boy,

You said, 'No I'm not God. So... who on earth today has been in the presence of the exalted Christ, saw His physical presence, heard His audible voice with their own physical ears? Anyone?'

 

DHK,

You said, 'What Hinn does is not of God. He is not a Christian. Any person who believes the atonement is in the devil is not of God.'

 

Of couse I believe in traditional orthodox Christain Trinitarian Monothiesm. That is not what is in question here. However, the text of Scripture makes it clear that all three members of the Godhead do not always manifest themselves at the same time and/or in the same place.

For example: In Luke 24:36-49 The Resurrected Christ is speaking to His disciples. He tells them, "I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high" (Luke 24:49, ESV).

Claerly, God the Son, Jesus, was present and speaking to His disciples and God the Holy Spirit was not there because Jesus said that He was going to send the promise of the Father (i.e. the Holy Spirit) to them and they were to wait in the city until that happened. It happen in at Pentecost (Acts 2).

 

Bible-boy,

You said, 'The text does not say about being slain by the Spirit.'

 

The text clearly says that when Saul asked who was speaking to him the Lord replied, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting" (Acts 9:5b, ESV). This is the exalted Christ. He did not say, "I am the Holy Spirit" or "I am Jesus and this is My Holy Spirit." Stick with the plain meaning of the literal, historical grammatical reading and understanding of the text.

 

Tam and I have experienced this moving of the Holy Spirit on our lives. Ed Edwards correctly interprets I Cor. 12 & 14 and may or may not have this Biblical experience ministered by the Holy Spirit. It would be interesting to know if he and others who believe the Biblical interpretation, if they have been overcome by the Spirit of God.

 

gb93433,

Let me add one word to what you said which would make it correct. 'It is the {correct} use of the gift which gives glory to God or not.'

Your statement was 'It is the use of the gift which gives glory to God or not.'

In the Corinthian church some spoke in tongues without an interpretation following. This was in violation of the Lord's use of the gift, because without the 'interpretation' no person understood the message thus no edification of the saints.'

A gift was used but wrongly used. God corrects these things through Paul's instruction in his first epistle of Corinthians.

 

Bible-boy,

You said, 'Apples and oranges again. You are ignoring the full context of the 1 Thes. passage in order to try and make a point. Bad hermeneutics. The full context of 1 Thes. 4:13-5:11 makes it clear that what we refer to as the "rapute" is what is being discussed.

The experience of Saul on the Damascus Road (Acts 9) and John (Rev. 1ff) do not support the personal experience that you have described previously as being slain in the Spirit. They in no way correspond. You can force that meaning onto the texts if you like. However, it is bad hermeneutics that results in eisegesis of the Scripture. Stick with the plain meaning of a literal, historical grammatical reading and understanding of the text.'

 

The personal experience that you have described does not correspond to the biblical experiences you cite as references. Therefore, I must reject the doctrinal position you are attempting to build based on your personal experience as error. You agreed with me that such was/is the case and a good principle. Now I ask you to not just give it an intellectual nod, but to actually put it into practice. If our personal experiences do not line up with and correspond to experiences described in the Bible there is no objective truth to measure them by and no good reason to construct a doctrine around them. As such our biblically unverified personal subjective experiences and $4.00 will get us an over priced cup of coffee at Starbucks. However, they do not support sound Christian doctrine.

 

I meant to say ' . . . the Holy Spirit or the Father or God the Father.'

Each Person of the Godhead is God, and of course, Jesus.

 

Furthermore, follow this line of reasoning out to its logical conclusion. If what you are saying is correct then we should expect to see people "falling out" every time God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit have interactions with (or draw near to) people throughout the Bible. However, it simply does not happen.

[ December 21, 2005, 04:38 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]

 

Bible-boy,

You said, 'However, the only reference you have given make it clear that the exalted Christ alone was present.'

 

I already addressed this. I guess you missed it. So here:

Nope... you are reading your presupposition into the text of Acts 9. The difference is that Matt. 3:13-17 plainly and clearly states that all three members of the Godhead were present there at the same time (manifest in the physical presence of the Incarnate Christ, the voice of God the Father from heaven, and the Holy Spirit descending in the form of a dove). Acts 9 does not say this same trifold manifestation occurred. It only says that the exalted Christ was there.

Again, the difference is that the text of Scripture in the passage you reference does not say that each member of the Godhead was manifest at that specific time. It only speaks to the fact that God the Father and God the Son are one (of the exact same essence).

Nope... that is not at all what I am saying. However, I am saying that when one person of the Triune Godhead is present it does not mean that all three are always manifest right there at the same time.

I already have.

[ December 21, 2005, 06:24 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]

 

Again, let's follow this line of reasoning out to its logical conclusion. If what you are saying about the nature of the Triune Godhead and God's omnipresence is correct, then because He is everywhere all the time and at the same time we should all be in a continual state of "falling out" (being slain in the Spirit) because His presence is all around us at all times. Right? It simply does not happen. However, we do have two clear biblical examples where people (Saul and John) fell down when they were in the presence of the exalted Christ. Please be sure not to take me out of context here and note what I said in answer to your questions in my immediate previous post.

[ December 21, 2005, 06:18 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]

 

Bible boy,

You sound like a cult in Lancaster Country, Pennsylvania called, "Jesus Only." Are you one of them. Apparently, you are trying to dismanel the Trinity to prove your erring view.

Go check with your theology professor about the Three Persons of the Godhead and see if he allows you to divide up God in three Persons.

That is why when Saul saw the light it was the Godhead who was approaching him as he was knocked or fell to the ground.

Saul only heard about the Lord who he was persecuting and had not yet learned the Trinitarian truth that you are in this passage of Acts nine are trying to deny. The entire Godhead was in the mysterious light.

 

'Furthermore, follow this line of reasoning out to its logical conclusion. If what you are saying is correct then we should expect to see people "falling out" every time God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit have interactions with (or draw near to) people throughout the Bible. However, it simply does not happen.'