Speaking in Tongues Continued

Since several of the Angels players are currently in contract negotiation with the ball club, I think it stands to reason that the tongues of Angels is a very good agent.

 

DHK,

You said, 'Whether in the Old Testament, New Testament, or even in the Book of Revelation, no angel ever spoke in anything other than a language known to humans. Angels had the ability to speak the language to any person that God sent them to: whether it was to Manoah, Daniel, Lot, Jacob, Elizabeth, Zechariah, etc. They could speak perfectly, flawlessly, without any grammatical mistake, and very eloquently in whatever language God sent them to deliver his message. Their is no indication that they spoke anything else but a human language. If you can get something other than that out of Scripture I would like to see it.

 

If you used the Bible definition of 'tongue':

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an vnknowen tongue,
speaketh not vnto men, but vnto God:
for no man vnderstandeth him:
howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Then you could plainly see that Paul did speak the
tongues of angels:

1Co 14:18 (KLJV1611 Edition):
I thanke my God, I speake with tongues
more then you all.

But, if you intend to stick with the
definition of 'estatic language' that
is made by men - then you must continue to
have faulted logic in your falted conclusions.

 

DHK,

If I am not mistaken Dr. John Mac Arthur is a Five Point Calvinist. He has more error in his theology than Copeland who believes in salvation by faith, sanctification, the Rapture and the 'gifts of the Spirit, plus living a deeper life in the realm of the Spirit. I have learned from him but do not accept everything he says.

To some Dr. Mac Arthur types---their understanding of the Spirit of God is merely doctrine that might in many cases be correct, but they miss and do not emphasize living like Jesus and experiencing the fulness of joy offered by God the Holy Spirit.

Every teacher of the Word has some cintilla of error and we have to watch for it to surface and then thank the Lord for the things that they teach that are true.

 

Words of DHK:You are right. if you don't do it with love, it is meaningless.
DHK

Then perhaps we should try to show Christian Love to each other on this board. That would be a good place to start, don't you think?

Peace,

Tam

 

Amen, Sister tamborine lady - you are RIGHT ON!

 

The KJV translators admitted they added the word. They admit the word is not in there. That's why it's in italics.

 

Hope of Glory,

In my KJV ---an A.J. Holman Company Bible, the word commit is not in italics. This is why people think that a Christian cannot sin or he is not a Christian. Thanks to to the translators of the KJV.

Study the Greek language, then no one can confuse you.

 

Hope of Glory,

That is why John who got saved yesterday should not be trying to preach and teach others, when he is not qualified. This is why denominations set qualification to make it difficult for a person to become a man or woman of God who can instruct other people. Some people are not even qualified emotionally/psychologically to be ministering in a church.

They can witness to what Jesus has done for them and the life He has taken them out of, but not to actively be preaching.

I think it was Paul who said, in effect, 'Lay your hands suddenly on no man.'

 

If Mac Arthur is a five point Calvinist he is teaching more error than what you allegedly say Pastor Hinn is doing. In your words, DHK, this writer writes heretical things, things that do not agree with the N.T. teaching.

Personally, I do not believe 98% of what some non-Pentecostal denominational official says about the man Rev. Hinn. A lot of hate mongering. Push the other minister down so you look as though you are better than him. Jealous, etc.

Everything I have ever heard him preach on T.V. was not off the scope, as some of you guys suggest about him.

Those who protest a lot about Hinn will never have passing through their church doors, as many as he preaches to in one crusade.

The Holy Spirit draws the people and they appreciate the blessing that he gives to the people who receive the blessing of the Lord. As I said the Spirit of God touches the people and often Hinn never even touches their body. God the Spirit is imminent/close to people who desire Him to be close to them.

 

Sorry, I quoted the wrong thing. I was referring to "unknown".

However, to answer part of your statement. Am I to infer that you think I'm a KJVO?

To answer the other part, "commit" is certainly an incorrect translation there. The word is a present, active, participle, just as it is in verse 4, and just as sinning is in verse 8.

Also, "he cannot sin" is a wrong translation. The present, active, infinitive means "and he cannot go on sinning". I think the idea here is the same as in Romans 6:1 and is contrasted with Romans 6:15.

Although I quoted a part that I did not intend, I guess the part I quoted needed an answer as well.

 

You know every experience that every person alive on this earth today has had? Are you God? </font>[/QUOTE]No I'm not God. So... who on earth today has been in the presence of the exalted Christ, saw His physical presence, heard His audible voice with their own physical ears? Anyone?

 

I would say that any gift can be used to glorify God or Satan. Many preachers stand up on Sunday and escort God out of the building by their desire to be first and draw attention to themselves. Then there are those who use the same gift God gave to give Him glory, honor and praise. No gift automatically goves honor to God. It is the use of the gift which gives glory to God or not.

 

No idea what you are talking about here. What event are you talking about? What does Wake Forest, NC have to do with any part of our discussion? Don't know what "personal interpretation key" you are talking about. All I did was read the two Scriptures that you referenced in support of your claim and I noticed that the experiences detailed in Scripture do not come close to corresponding with the personal experience you describe. Thus, you are comparing apples to oranges.

Why would you intentionally seek to "get a reaction" from me simply for the purpose of having a bit of fun at my expense? Such an attitude is considered as “Trolling” on some Internet message boards and often results in the person losing posting privileges. I thought we were involved in a serious discussion of the Word of God. If you want to make jokes or attempt to win some kind of personal one-upmanship points, please do it somewhere else.

The text does not mention any "slaying by the Holy Spirit" in Acts 9:4. What the text does say is that a light from heaven flashed around Saul (Acts 9:3). Then he (Saul) fell to the ground and he heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me (Acts, 9:4)?" Then Saul asked, "Who are you, Lord (Acts 9:5a)?" Then the Lord replied, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting, but rise and enter the city and you will be told what you are to do (Acts 9:5b-6)."

Saul was in the presence of the exalted Christ. The text does not mention that God the Holy Spirit or God the Father were also present. It only says that Jesus was there speaking in an audible voice to Saul. Saul's experience in Acts 9 does not correspond to the personal experience you detail below.

I do have all those things. Like Moses I would love to be able to see God's glory. However, like Moses because of my sinful nature and frail human condition I could not stand the full force of seeing God's glory face to face. It would kill me. Again, we are talking about God the Father here (if we stick with a literal, historical grammatical reading and understanding of the text in question). So what does Moses being in the presence of God the Father on the mount have to do with someone having this personal experience (like you detail below) of "being slain in the Spirit"? The two experiences do not correspond.

I agree that it happened. The Bible clearly says that it happened. However, again John was in the presence of the exalted Christ and he heard Christ's audible voice when it happened. This biblical experience does not correspond with the experience you detail below. According to your story you were not in the presence of the exalted Christ and you did not hear His audible voice. So where is the connection between the two experiences?

Do we have any directly corresponding examples of the Holy Spirit touching anyone through a minister in the Scriptures?

The experience you have detailed above does not correspond to the biblical experiences that you have referenced in its support. I can't say for sure what happened to you (or more correctly what caused it to happen to you). There simply is no account in the Bible that directly corresponds to what you have detailed here. At least be intellectually honest here and say, “This is what happened to me. There is no biblical account that corresponds with what I believe I experienced. I know what I think happened, but I can’t prove it from the text of Scripture. Therefore, I can’t say with 100% biblical certainty what really happened.”

Me too. However, our emotions do not determine biblical truth. If we allow our feelings, emotions, and personal experiences to dictate truth to us we place them in a position of authority over the Word. That is a problem and results in faulty hermeneutics and poor exegesis (actually results in eisegesis) of the Scripture.

In a previous post you agreed with me when I said:

And you agreed with me when I said:

So now let’s put our common belief and agreement to these two above quoted statements into practice and allow the Word of God to be the final authority over our feelings and experiences. Otherwise you will be simply giving intellectual ascent to these principles and continuing in practice to allow personal feelings and experiences to be the authority over the Word of God and to dictate what you wish to believe to be truth. Let’s be intellectually honest here and admit that the two biblical experiences you referenced in no way directly correspond to, and therefore do not support, the personal experience you have described.

[ December 21, 2005, 02:34 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]

 

DHK,

We have already gone round and round about 3 times on that, and I have used the scriptures to show your view to be wrong.

Rather than type out a long response yet again, here is one of my posts again from much earlier in this thread...

You say that the little word "all" is to be taken *literally*, meaning that Paul means by the word "all" that he is saying... "If I were Almighty God with complete and total knowlege of this subject as completly as God knows it."

This is in spite of the fact that these passages of scripture...and there are of course hundreds if not thousands of others as well...that use the word all in *precisely* the same way...

...and in none of those cases is the word "all" to be taken as you want to take the word "all" in the 1st passage

In adition...why are you choosing to ignore the passages that do no use that word?

He doeasnt say "ALL the tongues of ALL mean, as if I were God Himself"

He doesnt say "have ALL the gift of prophecy that is possible, as if I were God Himself"

Nothing about being God Almighty there. Simply being a martyr.


Paul makes no great and mighty claim with those, just like he makes no great and mighty claim regarding having knowledge, having faith, or understanding mysteries. He is clearly bringing up many many things which are possible for us to participate in...including speaking in a heavenly language by gifting of the Holy Spirit...and he is making the point that all of it is secondary to love.

Nothing that you have posted disturbs in the least bit the point that the scriptures, and those such as myself and several others on this thread are making, regarding the gift of tongues. You are taking the interpretation of men regarding these passages, found in some commentaries and in some denominational seminaries...men who for whatever reasons are biased against these gifts...and imo taking their word for it, rather than simply reading the scriptures as written by God.

This is exactly what the Catholics do regarding what they are told they must believe from the Hierarchy of their false church!

I'm not trying to put you down in the least, brother. I'll proudly stand shoulder to shoulder with you in any number of situations...as you know I have in other threads here at this fine forum site(such as the Catholic ones)...and if some heathen or pagan wants to go toe to toe with you they will have me to deal with as well. I'll "have your back" as the kids say.

But so many brothers and sisters on this thread have given scripture after scripture after scripture after scripture after scripture, and yet you say things like "you have offered no scriptural proof".

Yes we have. Over and over again.

In His love,

Mike</font>[/QUOTE]There...now that was a whole lot easier that typing it all out again!

Grace and peace,

Mike