Roman Catholicism and the total abuse & murder of children (incl. abortion).

Exactly. I am in dialogue with him even now. He is missing a few things.

He (Andrew) said, and I directly quote his email to me (only a few hours old):

"... I live in Manila, Philippines and I currently attend the SDA church at the hospital here. Adventists here do not support abortion at all ..."

Looks like its not as bad as you're claiming Walter. He also continued to state in the same email:

"... Catholics (and evangelicals?) believe that at conception the unborn is given an immortal soul. I believe this is contrary to the Bible and I will explore this in a future video. ..."

Though he is slightly in error in several points about the Seventh-day Adventist 'remnant', he did state this:

".. I'm not aware of any other official doctrine of the SDA church that is not biblical. I hope that helps,
Andrew ..."

I have his email if you need that, or you can find it online and verify with him.

I am currently in the process of asking him about the following material in this thread, which he seems totally ignorant of.

 

I know all about it, and they all should go to jail and names stripped from the books, cast out as an offense to Jesus Christ and no christian. Keep pointing out the Judas' though. Simply taking the name Seventh-day Adventist doesn't make one so. Isaiah 8:20.

 

No, people claiming to be Seventh-day Adventist do those things. Simply taking the name does not make one so, and does not make the doctrine of scripture (which the remnant holds to) teach it or sanction it.

However, Roman Catholicism's official doctrine does sanction murder:

"Summa Theologica: Article 3. Whether heretics ought to be tolerated? ..."

"… I answer that, With regard to heretics two points must be observed: one, on their own side; the other, on the side of the Church. On their own side there is the sin, whereby they deserve not only to be separated from the Church by excommunication, but also to be severed from the world by death. For it is a much graver matter to corrupt the faith which quickens the soul, than to forge money, which supports temporal life. Wherefore if forgers of money and other evil-doers are forthwith condemned to death by the secular authority, much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death. ..."

"...On the part of the Church, however, there is mercy which looks to the conversion of the wanderer, wherefore she condemns not at once, but "after the first and second admonition," as the Apostle directs: after that, if he is yet stubborn, the Church no longer hoping for his conversion, looks to the salvation of others, by excommunicating him and separating him from the Church, and furthermore delivers him to the secular tribunal to be exterminated thereby from the world by death. ..."

"...Yet if heretics be altogether uprooted by death, this is not contrary to Our Lord's command ..."

"...For this reason the Church not only admits to Penance those who return from heresy for the first time, but also safeguards their lives, and sometimes by dispensation, restores them to the ecclesiastical dignities which they may have had before, should their conversion appear to be sincere: we read of this as having frequently been done for the good of peace. But when they fall again, after having been received, this seems to prove them to be inconstant in faith, wherefore when they return again, they are admitted to Penance, but are not delivered from the pain of death. ..."

"...Reply to Objection 1. In God's tribunal, those who return are always received, because God is a searcher of hearts, and knows those who return in sincerity. But the Church cannot imitate God in this, for she presumes that those who relapse after being once received, are not sincere in their return; hence she does not debar them from the way of salvation, but neither does she protect them from the sentence of death. …" [Summa Theologica The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas
Second and Revised Edition, 1920
Literally translated by Fathers of the English Dominican Province
Online Edition Copyright © 2008 by Kevin Knight
Nihil Obstat. F. Innocentius Apap, O.P., S.T.M., Censor. Theol.
Imprimatur. Edus. Canonicus Surmont, Vicarius Generalis. Westmonasterii.
APPROBATIRDINIS
Nihil Obstat. F. Raphael Moss, O.P., S.T.L. and F. Leo Moore, O.P., S.T.L.
Imprimatur. F. Beda Jarrett, O.P., S.T.L., A.M., Prior Provincialis Angliæ
MARIÆ IMMACULATÆ - SEDI SAPIENTIÆ] - SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: Heresy (Secunda Secundae Partis, Q. 11)

It's all over official Roman Catholic doctrine, in Canon Law, to Catechism, to pope's own mouth, council of Trent, etc.

You will find no such thing in the Seventh-day Adventist official doctrine (Isaiah 8:20). We do not believe in Augustine's misuse of the 'two swords'.

Peter was rebuked by Jesus Christ.

So, when finding thieves (like Judas) among the Apostles, does not make Jesus accomplice, nor His doctrine accomplice, but the difference between this and Roman Catholicism's doctrine is clear, they do sanction the death to persons, adult or not. And if you want to get into the sexual aspect we can, and what Romanism teaches there also.

 

The King James Bible, aka AV1611. You can find a copy of it here - OFFICIAL KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE: AUTHORIZED KING JAMES VERSION (KJV)

You asked, I told you (but you won't believe me, not even the IFBaptist believe me).

 

You think a website is official Seventh-day Adventist doctrine? You have a gross misunderstanding of real Seventh-day Adventist doctrine. The authority for a Seventh-day Adventist is not a website, nor even Ted Wilson (even sister White did not desire 'presidencies' and there was a year in which they attempted to do away with it, not that Ted Wilson knows this), or any of that nature. It is Isaiah 8:20.

I even cited James White for you, but, you do not seem to grasp the concept of the difference between remnant and corporation.

"... The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years would be accounted as error. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a [205] wonderful work. The Sabbath of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure. {1SM 204.2}

Who has authority to begin such a movement? We have our Bibles. We have our experience, attested to by the miraculous working of the Holy Spirit. We have a truth that admits of no compromise. Shall we not repudiate everything that is not in harmony with this truth? {1SM 205.1} ..." - 1 Selected Messages 204.2 - 205.1

The Seventh-day Adventist movement doesn't get its orders from those places you cited. Our marching orders come directly from the Law and the Testimony (full stop).

You can point to goats all day long. Try looking at the sheep.

 

I cited Thomas Aquinas, the 'angelic doctor', 'sainted' of Romanism in his "Summa Theologica", which is current practice to this day. It has the ongoing Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat and highest markings of authority outside of a papal 'bull'.

Let's start with a definition then, ready?

[CCC] " … 2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."11 ..." [Roman Catholic Catechism; PART THREE: LIFE IN CHRIST; SECTION TWO THE TEN COMMANDMENTS; CHAPTER ONE YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; Article 1 THE FIRST COMMANDMENT; I. "You Shall Worship the Lord Your God and Him Only Shall You Serve"; Ending Notation 11, refers to Canon 751 of Roman Catholic Canon Law] - http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P7C.HTM

Do you agree with this, yes or no?

Then we can get into what Romanism says about such persons and what to do with them.

 

First of all, the 'church manual' is the Bible, not the 'book' you cited called 'church manual'.

Yet to the original quotation, I do pray you read the whole thing:

"...I have often been instructed by the Lord that no man's judgment should be surrendered to the judgment of any other one man. Never should the mind of one man or the minds of a few men be regarded as sufficient in wisdom and power to control the work and to say what plans shall be followed. But when, in a General Conference, the judgment of the brethren assembled from all parts of the field is exercised, private independence and private judgment must not be stubbornly maintained, but surrendered. Never should a laborer regard as a virtue the persistent maintenance of his position of independence, contrary to the decision of the general body. {9T 260.1}

At times, when a small group of men entrusted with the general management of the work have, in the name of the General Conference, sought to carry out unwise [261] plans and to restrict God's work, I have said that I could no longer regard the voice of the General Conference, represented by these few men, as the voice of God. But this is not saying that the decisions of a General Conference composed of an assembly of duly appointed, representative men from all parts of the field should not be respected. God has ordained that the representatives of His church from all parts of the earth, when assembled in a General Conference, shall have authority. The error that some are in danger of committing is in giving to the mind and judgment of one man, or of a small group of men, the full measure of authority and influence that God has vested in His church in the judgment and voice of the General Conference assembled to plan for the prosperity and advancement of His work. {9T 260.2}

When this power, which God has placed in the church, is accredited wholly to one man, and he is invested with the authority to be judgment for other minds, then the true Bible order is changed. Satan's efforts upon such a man's mind would be most subtle and sometimes well-nigh overpowering, for the enemy would hope that through his mind he could affect many others. Let us give to the highest organized authority in the church that which we are prone to give to one man or to a small group of men. ..."

You just negated your entire premise by citing that portion. There are only a few men (compared to the body) that are going against (in various areas, this or that) the body of the Seventh-day Adventist movement.

"... The world's Redeemer has invested His church with great power. He states the rules to be carried in cases of trial with its members. After He has given explicit directions as to the course to be pursued, He says, "Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever (in church discipline) ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matthew 8:18). Thus the highest authority, even the heavenly, ratifies the discipline of the church in regard to its members when the Bible rule has been followed. {15MR 130.1}

The word of God does not give license for one man to set up his judgment in opposition to the judgment of the church, neither is he allowed to urge his opinions against the opinions of the church. Unless there was church discipline and church governments, the church would go to fragments. They could not hold together as a body. . . . {15MR 130.2} ..." - 15MR (No. 1158), pages 130.1-130.2

"... "The angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth, and said, Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life." We see here that the men in authority [1546] are not always to be obeyed, even though they may profess to be teachers of Bible doctrines...." - 1888 Materials, page 1545.1

"... Christ rebuked these practices in His day. He taught that the word of God was to be understood by all. He pointed to the Scriptures as of unquestionable authority, and we should do the same. The Bible is to be presented as the word of the infinite God, as [40] the end of all controversy and the foundation of all faith. {COL 39.1} ..." - Christ Object Lessons, page 39.1

You also just countered 'popery' in one fell swoop. Nice job.

The same is seen in Acts 15, the council held in Jerusalem. The body met together, based upon 3 things, Peter's experience and vision, Paul and Barnabas testimony which was in agreement, and rooted in the Bible itself as James cites. Letters were then directed to all the churches, that each may read the decision of the appointed council and were sent with witnesses, and confirmed by prophets (thus by the Holy Ghost Himself).

No, she didn't just place men above scripture. The context is God's men in subjection to the scripture in full council as opposed to satanic idea of the private interpretation of one man, or few men (ie Roman Catholicism).

"... A familiar acquaintance with the Scriptures sharpens the discerning powers, and fortifies the soul against the attacks of Satan. The Bible is the sword of the Spirit, which will never fail to vanquish the adversary. It is the only true guide in all matters of faith and practice. ..." - The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, January 4, 1881, par. 27

"... The Bible, and the Bible alone, is the rule of faith and practice. ..." - 1888 Materials, page 1532.2

"... The Bible is our Counselor, and is to be obeyed. ..." - 13MR (No. 1027), page 191.1

"... The truth of the Christian religion depends upon the divine authority of the word of God. ..." - Paulson Collection, page 110.7

"... We should not allow any argument of man's to turn us away from a thorough investigation of Bible truth. The opinions and customs of men are not to be received as of divine authority. God has revealed in his word what is the whole duty of man, and we are not to be swayed from the great standard of righteousness. He sent his only begotten Son to be our example, and bade us to hear and to follow him. We must not be influenced from the truth as it is in Jesus, because great and professedly good men urge their ideas above the plain statements of the word of God. {RH, July 17, 1888 par. 12} ..." - The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, July 17, 1888, par. 12

"... My cry has been, Investigate the Scriptures for yourselves, and know for yourselves what saith the Lord. No man is to be authority for us. If he has received his light from the Bible, so may we also go to the same source for light and proof to substantiate the doctrines which we believe. The Scriptures teach that we should give a reason of the hope that is within us with meekness and fear. . . . {9MR 217.2} ..." - 9MR (No. 731), page 217.2

"... Truth, Bible truth, is to become the authority for the conscience and the love and life of the soul. {10MR 315.4} ..." - 10MR (No. 829), page 315.4

"... The Word of God is your counselor; the Word of God is your authority. Be very careful how you bring anything weaker to take its place...." - 14MR (1109), page 186.1

 

Canon Law on catholic women (transgendered too??? a female that choose to be identified as male (why not a Ford pickup truck, or ice cream cone, or a more nebulous idea such as choosing to be identified as free-as-a-bird) and became pregnant) getting an abortion, exceptions to penalty:

"...Canon 1323 provides that the following do not incur a sanction, those who are not yet 16, are unaware of a law, do not advert to it or are in error about its scope, were forced or had an unforeseeable accident, acted out of grave fear, or who lacked the use of reason (except culpably, as by drunkenness). Thus a woman forced by an abusive husband to have an abortion would not incur an excommunication, for instance, whereas someone culpably under the influence of drugs or alcohol would (canon 1325). ..." - Link

Canon 1323:

Can. 1323 The following are not subject to a penalty when they have violated a law or precept:
"...

1/ a person who has not yet completed the sixteenth year of age;

2/ a person who without negligence was ignorant that he or she violated a law or precept; error are equivalent to ignorance;

3/ a person who acted due to physical force or a chance person could not foreseen, avoid;

4/ a person who acted coerced by grave fear, even if only relatively grave, or due to necessity or grave inconvenience unless the act is intrinsically evil or tends to the harm of souls;

5/ a person who acted with due moderation against an unjust aggressor for the sake of legitimate self defense or defense of another;

6/ a person who lacked the use of reason, without prejudice to the prescripts of cann. ⇒ 1324, §1, n. 2 and ⇒ 1325;

7/ a person who without negligence thought that one of the circumstances mentioned in nn. 4 or 5 was present. ..." - Code of Canon Law - IntraText

Did you catch that about pedo's ... under age and no penalties ...

"... Pope Francis’ m.p. Vos estis ...

... 3. Sexual acts performed by clerics and/or religious with consenting adults, though sacrilegious by their very nature and often extremely disruptive to the faith community (think, adultery between a pastor and a member of the parish or a religious’ participation in ‘adult pornography’ rings), are still not criminalized. ..." - Thoughts on ‘Vos estis’

 

Pew Research 2018:

".. .Catholics are somewhat more divided; 51% say abortion should be legal in all or most cases and 42% say it should be illegal. ..." - Public Opinion on Abortion

Pew Research 2019:

"... Among Catholic Republicans and GOP leaners, 55% say abortion should be illegal in all or most cases, identical to the share among all Republicans. At the same time, 64% of Catholic Democrats and Democratic leaners say abortion should be legal in all or most cases — slightly lower than the share for Democrats overall (76%). On balance, however, Catholic Democrats are more likely to favor legal abortion than to oppose it. ..." - Like Americans overall, U.S. Catholics are sharply divided by party

"... in the Philippines where Catholics are so markedly in the majority and abortions are not legalized, one international authority in the Pro-Life and Natural Family Planning movement, Fr. Paul Marx, O.S.B., estimates that there are a million abortions a year. ..." - The Abortion Problem and the New Code of Canon Law on JSTOR