Featured Be On Guard against false doctrine.....False Ideas on PSA considered

J.C.Ryle wrote;
Be On Guard Against False Doctrine

Consider Your Ways

Consider Your Ways

4. Let us be on our guard against false doctrine. Unsound faith will never be the mother of really sound practice, and in these latter days, departures from the faith abound. See then that your loins be girt about with truth, and be very jealous of receiving anything which cannot be proved by the Bible.

Do not think for a moment that false doctrine will meet you face to face, saying, "I am false doctrine, and I want to come into your heart." Satan does not go to work in that way. He dresses up false doctrine like Jezebel — he paints her face and attires her hair, and tries to make her like truth. Do not think that those who preach error will never preach anything that is true. Error, would do little harm if that was the case. No! error will come before you mingled with much that is sound and scriptural.

 

What is at issue here is the nature of the finished work of the Cross.

What is a part of the discussion has to do with Does a Holy, Just ,God punish sin...all sin?

Can there be unpunished sin and God be said to be just?

Is it just that the ungodly who go into second death to be eternally under the punishment of God, punished by the wrath of God coming upon them without mercy....when believers who were born Children of wrath go on into eternal life when during their life, they committed the same sins or worse than the reprobate?

What exactly happened to the just wrath against God against the sins of believers before they were saved from their sins?

Did something happen to their sins, that makes them able to spend eternity with God?

Does the OT. sacrificial system mean anything?

Did it point to a remedy that was in the future?

What do terms in the bible mean?

Can we just repeat partial bible verses without any explanation and claim we are biblically based, when we cannot explain the verses?

If we explain away the bible verses without explaining them....do we really have those verses?

These and other questions will be addressed here.

 

Moses was one of the greatest types of Christ Jesus in scripture; we read this;
23 Therefore he said that he would destroy them,

had not Moses his chosen stood before him in the breach,

to turn away His wrath, lest he should destroy them.
preceptaustin;
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed (Present tense) from heaven against all ungodliness & unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness." (NASB: Lockman)

Greek: Apokaluptetai (3SPPI) gar orge theou ap' ouranou epi pasan asebeian kai adikian anthropon ton ten aletheian en adikia| katechontin, (PAPMPG)

Amplified: For God's [holy] wrath and indignation are revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who in their wickedness repress and hinder the truth and make it inoperative. (Amplified Bible - Lockman)

NLT: But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves. (NLT - Tyndale House)

Phillips: Now the holy anger of God is disclosed from Heaven against the godlessness and evil of those men who render truth dumb and inoperative by their wickedness. (Phillips: Touchstone)

Wuest: For there is revealed God’s wrath from heaven upon every lack of reverence and upon every unrighteousness of men who in unrighteousness are holding down the truth.

Young's Literal: for revealed is the wrath of God from heaven upon all impiety and unrighteousness of men, holding down the truth in unrighteousness.

A T Robertson explains it this way…

Note in Romans Paul's use of gar, now argumentative, now explanatory, now both as here. There is a parallel and antecedent revelation (see Romans 1:17) of God's wrath corresponding to the revelation of God's righteousness, this an unwritten revelation, but plainly made known. Orgē is from orgaō, to teem, to swell. It is the temper of God towards sin, not rage, but the wrath of reason and law (Shedd). The revelation of God's righteousness in the gospel was necessary because of the failure of men to attain it without it, for God's wrath justly rested upon all both Gentiles (Ro 1:18-32) and Jews (Romans 2:1-3:20).

John Piper explains for by asking…

Why does Paul introduce Ro 1:18 with the word "for" or "because"? He does this in order to show that everything he is going to say about sin is meant to support the GOSPEL of Ro 1:17. He does not mention the gospel for the sake of sin. He deals with sin for the sake of the GOSPEL.

UNDERSTANDING SIN IS THE FOUNDATION
THAT UPHOLDS THE PRECIOUSNESS OF THE GOSPEL,
NOT VICE VERSA.

 

Moule - It must, of course, always be remembered that the "wrath of God" is the wrath of a Judge (Ed: Not an imperfect worldly "judge" but a perfect Righteous Judge! Ps 7:11 - indignation = orge in Lxx). In its inmost secret (wrath-orge) is the very opposite of an arbitrary outburst (Ed: That is thumos), being the eternal repulsion of evil by good (Ed: God Whose essence is Good). (Ibid)

3709) (orge from orgaô = to teem, to swell) conveys the picture of a swelling which eventually bursts, and thus describes an anger that proceeds from one’s settled nature. Orge does not refer to uncontrollable anger to which men are so prone but to God's settled indignation and controlled passionate hostile feeling toward sin in all its various manifestations.

Settled indignation means that God’s holiness cannot and will not coexist with sin in any form whatsoever.

Orge refers to to an inner, deep resentment that seethes and smolders. Orge as used of God refers to His constant and controlled indignation toward sin, while thumos (which originally referred to violent movements of air, water, etc., and consequently came to mean “well up” or “boil up”) refers more to a passionate outburst of rage. Thumos type anger represents an agitated, vehement anger that rushes along relentlessly. The root meaning has to do with moving rapidly and was used of a man’s breathing violently while pursuing an enemy in great rage!

Orge is not the momentary, emotional, and often uncontrolled anger (thumos) to which human beings are prone. Orge is used primarily of God's holy, righteous wrath but occasionally refers to the wrath of men (see Ephesians 4:31+)

Orge refers to to an inner, deep resentment that seethes and smolders. Orge as used of God refers to His constant and controlled indignation toward sin, while thumos (which originally referred to violent movements of air, water, etc., and consequently came to mean “well up” or “boil up”) refers more to a passionate outburst of rage. Thumos type anger represents an agitated, vehement anger that rushes along relentlessly. The root meaning has to do with moving rapidly and was used of a man’s breathing violently while pursuing an enemy in great rage!

 

God’s settled opposition to and displeasure with sin

God’s wrath is his holy hatred of all that is unholy. It is His righteous indignation at everything that is unrighteous. It is the temper of God towards sin. It is not God's uncontrollable rage, vindictive bitterness or a losing of His temper, but the wrath of righteous reason and holy law.

Orge - 36x in 34v - Usage: anger(6), wrath(30). (KJV translates it also indignation and vengeance).

Mt 3:7; Mark 3:5; Lk 3:7; 21:23; Jn 3:36; Ro 1:18; 2:5, 8; 3:5; 4:15; 5:9; 9:22; 12:19; 13:4, 5; Ep 2:3; 4:31; 5:6; Col 3:6, 8; 1Th 1:10; 2:16; 5:9; 1Ti 2:8; Heb 3:11; 4:3; James 1:19, 20; Re 6:16, 17; 11:18; 14:10; 16:19; 19:15

 

I will show the philosophy is coming from you two.

 

Well Agedman, that is good as those I will quote offer solid bible teaching.
We should agree on many things.
I think you two are off, and I intend to make that case as you should with us who you think are off.

 

I do agree with Ryle here, that is why I posted it.
Trusted guides are not infallible.
Like the Bereans examined even the Apostles.
i like the confessional statement on this;
Chapter 1: Of the Holy Scriptures
1._____ The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience, although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God and his will which is necessary unto salvation. Therefore it pleased the Lord at sundry times and in divers manners to reveal himself, and to declare that his will unto his church; and afterward for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan, and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing; which maketh the Holy Scriptures to be most necessary, those former ways of God's revealing his will unto his people being now ceased.
( 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Isaiah 8:20; Luke 16:29, 31; Ephesians 2:20; Romans 1:19-21; Romans 2:14,15; Psalms 19:1-3; Hebrews 1:1; Proverbs 22:19-21; Romans 15:4; 2 Peter 1:19,20 )

That being said, to cast off Godly teachers and lean upon your own understanding is quite foolish, especially when a person claims that {God spoke to them or instructed them that everyone else has totally missed it}

 

agedman,

If I take the time to work through this, it was not my first choice, but I have been drawn into it...it is important to clarify what is at issue.
I do not intend to just offer verses fragmented that you two will quickly rush in to "EXPLAIN AWAY', as I and others have seen take place in the other threads. Both of you claim this has not happened, and go round and round on the merry go round of denial. I will show it hopefully in a way that is helpful to you, or others

I see that you two have cluttered the good interaction with doublespeak on the other threads. I in time will isolate it, quoting your own words and contradictions, and how others have made the same observations.
You both complain about insults??? there will be no insults here, just clear observations of your postings.

Most are closed. It is going to take me a good deal of time to do this to give an accurate portrayal of your postings.

[QUOTE]Should you desire to present philosophy concerning the things of the crucifixion atonement, without attending to Scriptures, then we can go after that topic in this thread.[/QUOTE]

I am not interested in philosophy.But I refuse to let you two define it as when Godly men, teachers seek to cause to give the sense as Neh.8 speaks of;
8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense,
and caused them to understand the reading.

You two explain this away as philosophy

Did Jesus come to earth as 100% man? After all...HE DIED BEING SLAIN.

ARE YOU GOING TO ALSO SAY GOD DIED USING YOUR SAME REASONING?

Who said that happened? I say it was all part of the incarnation as we will see scripturally demonstrated. Are you sure you do not want to rethink these questions. I am not trying to trap you saying something you do not really mean to say.

I have great respect for him, but I also did not agree on all his positions.
That is the good thing, we do not have to agree with any man, but we can see what was offered scripturally.
His books on practical religion, holiness and the 4 gospels are wonderful tools.
I know he had much more in terms of gifts and grace than I ever will, so it would be quite foolish not to use such teachers.

 

We need to examine the wrath of God as some ignore it when it has to do with Gods wrath against those who happen to be believers now. Where did that wrath go?

• Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology
  Wrath of God
  

The Scriptures use various terms to express God's emotions that are in contrast to his love for, pleasure in, and satisfaction with his people. In the Old Testament at least six terms are used to express his negative reactions to humanity, particularly to his covenant people. These terms, all of which express varied shades or degrees of wrath, anger, displeasure, or vexation, are the following: anph [ Hebrews 10:31 (NAS)
31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

In order to understand what the Scriptures reveal concerning the anger and wrath of God, it is necessary to consider his character, the contexts in which they are spoken of, and with whom God is displeased, angry, or wroth.

God is holy; he totally and completely distances himself from sin, evil, corruption, and the resultant filth and guilt. He maintains his purity and rejects, fights against, and destroys that which would offend, attack, or undo his holiness and love.
Hence, God's anger and wrath must always be seen in relation to his maintaining and defending his attributes of love and holiness, as well as his righteousness and justice. The emotion or passion that moves God to this maintaining and defending is expressed by the terms "displeasure, " "indignation, " "anger, " and "wrath." A consequence of his wrath is vengeance, punishment, and death.

The wrath of God has been revealed throughout the entire history of humanity. It was implied when Adam was warned he would die if he disbelieved and disobeyed God (Genesis 2:17 (NAS)

The revelation of God's wrath was clearly demonstrated by means of the plagues of Egypt and the destruction of Pharaoh's army (Exodus 15:7 (NAS)


). Moses warned of the consequences of God's wrath for Israel if as a people they broke the covenant (Deuteronomy 11:17 (NAS)

13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, And the earth will be shaken from its place At the fury of the Lord of hosts In the day of His burning anger.
The wrath of God that the New Testament speaks of is to be expressed in judgments on a wicked, rebellious covenant people (Matthew 3:7 (NAS)
7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
7 So he began saying to the crowds who were going out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,


All people are under wrath (Ephesians 2:3 (NAS)
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
Ephesians 2:3 ), and the only way to escape this wrath, which is sure to be in full and fierce force in the judgment day, is to believe in Jesus Christ who bore the curse of the covenant and endured the wrath of God when he was crucified. This same Christ will execute divine wrath and vengeance to its fullest degree in judgment day (Revelation 6:16-17 (NAS)

 

In the present context note that the quality of this wrath is divine ("of God"). As MacArthur says this wrath…

is therefore unlike anything we know of in the present world. God’s wrath is not like human anger, which is always tainted by sin. God’s wrath is always and completely righteous. He never loses His temper. The Puritan writer Thomas Watson said, “Is God so infinitely holy? Then see how unlike to God sin is. … No wonder, therefore, that God hates sin, being so unlike to Him, nay, so contrary to Him; it strikes at His holiness." Unable to reconcile the idea of God’s wrath with his own ideas of goodness and righteousness, one liberal theologian made this claim: “We cannot think with full consistency of God in terms of the highest human ideals of personality and yet attribute to Him the rational passion of anger.” But it is foolish, not to mention unbiblical, to measure God by human standards and to discount the idea of His wrath simply because human anger is always flawed by sin. God’s anger is not capricious, irrational rage but is the only response that a holy God could have toward evil. God could not be holy and not be angry at evil. Holiness cannot tolerate unholiness." (MacArthur, J: Romans 1-8. Chicago: Moody Press)

Arthur Pink defined God’s wrath as…

His eternal detestation of all unrighteousness. It is the displeasure and indignation of Divine equity against evil. It is the holiness of God stirred into activity against sin” (Arthur W. Pink, The Attributes of God, p83).

Vine has an interesting insight

The subject of the wrath of God recurs throughout the first part of the Epistle (Ro 2:5, 8; 3:5; 4:15; 5:9; 9:22). In this Epistle, which treats especially of the gospel, the differing attributes of God are set forth in a manner which reveals His character as a whole. While the gospel reveals Him as infinitely merciful, His mercy is not characterized by leniency toward sin. The Scriptures never reveal one attribute of God at the expense of another. The revelation of His wrath is essential to a right understanding of His ways in grace." (Collected writings of W. E. Vine)