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Calvinists believe in evangelism

hypercalvinists do not

it gets into the decrees of God

Cals are infralapsarianists. we believe in the preaching of the Gospel and that it is the way God brings forth repentance and faith in our hearts. We believe that God chooses not to save some ie He passes over those that He chooses not to save ie He does not directly condemn them but just chooses not to save them



hypers are supralapsarianists They believe that God decrees who will be saved and there is no need to Evangelize ie God saves without the preaching of the Gospel. Also that God literally decrees the damnation of the wicked

 

I see we have another thread derailed into a discussion the Calvinists are right and everyone else is "shallow" and engaged in ear tinkling.

Calvinists are happy to engage in Evangelism because our Lord commanded we do. But they believe the only people who respond were chosen before creation, thus Evangelism does not bring those who would otherwise not be saved into the kingdom.
Evangelism does not "hasten the day" of Christ's return.

 

I have heard of high Calvinism for years.
I have no idea what it is supposed to mean though

back to the topic

 

There are several reasons for shallow teaching.
1. An unsaved minister is unlikely to preach the Gospel because he doesn't understand it.
2. A poorly educated ministeris unlikely to preach the deep things of God. I am sometimes reminded of a line in an old Bob Dylan song: 'And I'll know my song well before I start singing.'
3. A desire to build a big church. A minister who desires this will not preach anything that might upset someone in the congregation. We should desire growth in grace above growth in numbers.
4. A desire to follow the spirit of the age, rather than confronting it.

I'm sure there are many others. Feel free to add.

 

5. A lack of love for the lost.

 

Bob you forgot one

You think your so special that God picked you out from among billions that He left behind. That's calvinism

 

I bought up McArthur to illustrate that occasionally one can be a dispensationalist to a degree without being a fundamentalist. The man was correct earlier when he said dispensationalism and being KJV only is not fundamentals of the faith. However, how a sinner is justified and saved is a fundamental of the faith and this is the area where fundamenatlists and Calvinists always disagree. We not only have different ways of being saved but we have different views on who can be saved. So, with that in mind, it does not matter whether McArthur is a high Calvinist or a low Calvinist (if that is the other kind of Calvinist), it matters more about what he teaches on salvation.

Justification is always by faith in what God says or reveals to a person and justification took place for four thousand years before anyone on this earth ever heard the name Jesus Christ and that he is the Son of God. The condition for justification was and is faith, and will always be faith. Before the cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ God imputed the faith of those who believed what he said or revealed to him and imputed that faith for righteousness. He plainly says that in Romans and Galatians. But that does not clear a sinner of his inherent sin and though he is justified, God cannot dwell in him as a permanent member of his person. So, Jesus Christ, the Son of God and the son of man comes to live as a man but without sin and then pay the penalty of sin for every man, which is death, thus satisfying the justice of God and then being raised by God from the dead. In this manner the eternal cleansing blood can be applied to all sinners whom God justifies by faith and according to Titus 3:5 and Re 1:5 the sin is washed away by the blood. So, sin is taken away and the sinner can now have the eternal presence of God dwelling in his body in the person of the Spirit of God and of Christ, whom God gives to all mankind as his gift to be received by faith, and the trinitarian nature of man that was lost in Adam because of one sin, is thereby renewed through Jesus Christ. This presence of God in the body of a man gives him the divine nature and births him as a son of God, as Jesus is. Receiving God's gift of the Spirit, who was poured out of Jesus Christ on the cross and then poured out on the whole world, is salvation, eternal life because he is life and present with us always.

Everything is therefore on the basis of faith and the door of faith is open to all and the only hindrance is to not believe what God says about it. Not believing God will damn a soul.

Here is Romans 8 where I received the information I just gave you.

Ro 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Ro 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Believing the gospel of Jesus Christ is a fundamental of the faith. A man who believes what is required about the gospel and salvation must have intelligence, reason, and will. Without all three of these attributes you cannot be saved.

Ro 4:23 Now it was not written for his (Abraham's) sake alone, that it (righteousness) was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it (righteousness) shall be imputed, if we believe on him (God the Father) that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; (see Gal 1:1)

We must believe God the Father. A sinner cannot be saved without believing what God the Father says.

 

Again. Not sure of what high Calvinism and low Calvinism means?

people use those terms and never define them

 

I think a high Calvinist would be one who fully could embrace the TULIP points and can defend "L" limited atonement. Some people would also say you had to believe in covenant theology and infant baptism so that would knock Mac out in the view of some. Hyper Calvinism is usually an offensive term although some embrace it. They would be able to claim the label of High Calvinist except the best examples are Primitive Baptists who don't do infant baptism. IFB's like John R. Rice called all 5 point Calvinists Hyper-Calvinists and claimed he was a moderate Calvinist but then went on to refute all the TULIP except "P". A "low Calvinist I'm not sure of. I call myself a moderate Calvinist but I'm more Calvinistic than John R. Rice. I'm not sure about the "L" at least with the way it's explained but R.C. Sproul said you can't be a 4 point because then the whole system breaks down although in his own book he changed 3 of the letters himself. So I hope that cleared everything up for you guys.

 

Very well stated Dr Bob

 

Unmerited grace is not a bible doctrine. Grace is grace and "unmerited," when made an addition, is confusing. God, the judge of all men, has rightfully judged all men as guilty of breaking his law, and the sentence for all of Adam's race is suffering and death, the likeness of which Jesus Christ endured on his cross. Jesus Christ, the perfect man, the sinless man, substituted himself under the judgement of God on behalf of all of Adam's race when he poured out his blood and his life and God was satisfied with that sacrifice. Since that time until now God has not been angry with sinners but has sent the Spirit of Christ, gift of eternal life to dwell in any and all men forever and forever who would repent of personal sins and believe that God will save them in the name of Jesus Christ like he says he will.

God is not judging sinners today while they live and can believe, but he says, "and as it is appointed unto man once to die and after this the judgment." He 9:27

To believe and teach that men are sinners and guilty of awful deeds is right to do in this age, but to teach that God is angry and vengeful and hates any of them and has chosen to send them to eternal hell is to miss the wonder of the cross of Christ and how it gives all men the opportunity to be saved from the penalty of their sins.




Here are some scriptures for you to consider.

2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2 Cor 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

God has dispensed his grace unto all men through the cross of Christ.

But this age will end and also his time of grace.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

This is what IFB believes and most of us we will not compromise on it. We are not shallow.

 

If you truly believe we are alienated from God. Election is necessarily true

God is the offended party and the only one who can make us right before Himself

 

Honestly, have you ever read 2 Cor 5 from which I took my quotes in my last post? If you would just read it slowly and follow the logic, and understand what it says, you will probably want to go back and correct such an obviously misinformed statement.

The scriptures say that God did reconcile the world of sinners to himself by means of the cross where Jesus took away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Honestly, what do you fellows think the cross of Christ was all about?

 

I have never ever ever ever ever ever denied the substitutionary atonement of Christ, the Resurrection, Sola Fide, Sola Christus, Sola Gratia, Sola Scriptura.

ever

 

Please explain to me what parts of II Corinthians I misunderstand

 

Let's read this passage together since you are leaning hard toward universalism, which no Baptist holds to.

Look.
If the all is universal, then Paul would not say "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation."

There would be no need to wonder if anyone is in Christ, if the "all" were universal. Therefore, the "all" has to be particular to all who are in Christ. This also means that the world that Christ has reconciled is the chosen, elect, people of God throughout the entire world that are in Christ.

So, your universalism that you imagine is here, is not being taught by Paul in any way shape or form. The passage shows you to be wrong.

*2 Corinthians 5:11-21*
Therefore, knowing the fear of the Lord, we persuade others. But what we are is known to God, and I hope it is known also to your conscience. We are not commending ourselves to you again but giving you cause to boast about us, so that you may be able to answer those who boast about outward appearance and not about what is in the heart. For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died; and he died for all, that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for him who for their sake died and was raised. From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

ox·y·mo·ron
[ˌäksəˈmôrˌän]
NOUN

1. a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction (e.g. faith unfaithful kept him falsely true).
   SIMILAR:
   contradiction
   contradiction in terms
   self-contradiction
   inconsistency
   incongruity
   anomaly
   conflict
   absurdity
   oddity
   enigma
   puzzle
   mystery
   conundrum
   antinomy