Shallow preachers....

[JD731]

That's why I included to two main errors of IFB'dumb. The false arminian/works teaching to keep your salvation, and the false "managawd is always to be obeyed"

When I was a young man I spent lots of time in Tennessee with my job. When I was there I attended an IFB church and have visited other IFB churches in the state and I noted that those churches were more lively than IFB churches in Kentucky. However, the truth they preached and taught was not different though at times the expression of their worship differed slightly.

Back in those days the IFB's agreed on doctrine. That is why they were designated so. All the ones I was familiar with in those days would not compromise on the fundamentals of the faith and were dispensational, and preached from the KJV. I do not think that is true now. Fundamentalists who are in charge of some of these forums are likely to ban those who believe there are things about the Christian faith that must be believed to be saved, if they say so.

Shallow preachers in IFB churches might say more about the churches than about the preachers.

 

[Marooncat79]

Being Dispy and KJVO are not requirements to salvation

 

[JD731]

Being Dispy and KJVO are not requirements to salvation

This of course is true, but the op is about “shallow” preachers. According to the wording of the KJV in 1 Cor 2, the “deep” things of God are given to us in mysteries. These truths are discerned only by the spiritual preacher rather than the carnal because they are Spirit taught and require faithfulness to the words. (See 1Cor 4:1-2)

Jesus himself prophesied of this entire age, beginning to end, in Matt 13 in seven parables he called “the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven (Matt 13:11). The point he makes is that a mixture of good and bad exists during this age that requires he makes a division at the end.

 

[Marooncat79]

Are you calling Dispy and KJVO the deep things of God?

 

[JD731]

Are you calling Dispy and KJVO the deep things of God?

I am calling the "mysteries" the deep things of God because God does. If disy and KJVO are included, so be it. Did you consult the references I gave you?

1 Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Here is the same mystery being discussed and explained some 9 years later.

Eph 3: For this cause (check out the cause in chapter 2) I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, (in 1 Corinthians)
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister,

Fifty to seventy five percent of the shallow preachers cannot delineate the other ages of verse 5. Obviously Paul is speaking of a separate age he is in now from other ages that are already passed, when the mystery of Christ was hidden and unknown, or am I suffering from brain freeze. He calls this age "the dispensation of the grace of God." I did not call it that, Paul under inspiration of the Spirit did. I am sure not going to take the path of the shallow preachers and ignore the logic in his words. Are you?

 

[AustinC]

The mystery had been revealed, but Israel could not see.

*Daniel 9:25-26*
Now listen and understand! Seven sets of seven plus sixty-two sets of seven will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until a ruler—the Anointed One—comes. Jerusalem will be rebuilt with streets and strong defenses, despite the perilous times. “After this period of sixty-two sets of seven, the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end.

 

[JD731]

The mystery had been revealed, but Israel could not see.

*Daniel 9:25-26*
Now listen and understand! Seven sets of seven plus sixty-two sets of seven will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until a ruler—the Anointed One—comes. Jerusalem will be rebuilt with streets and strong defenses, despite the perilous times. “After this period of sixty-two sets of seven, the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end.

What has that got to do with what we are discussing on this thread?

 

[AustinC]

What has that got to do with what we are discussing on this thread?

Some of your "mysteries" are not mysteries. Instead, it's just poor studying and shallow teaching.

 

[robycop3]

I was listening to an IFB evangelist from Ashland, Ky, who was quite-shallow. While I can tolerate the KJVOism, this dude's a "hacker"-"For God so loved the world-AGH-that He gave His only begotten Son-AGH-". That phony grunting grates on my ears. And he deliberately uses "backwoods" English-borned, I seen, knowed, he done, etc. I've heard him carry on a conversation when not preaching, and his English is perfect. And his sermons are full of praise fpr Jesus, but little of telling people how to come to Him. While I believe he's a Christian, I don't believe he was called to preach. I myself am IFB, but our church does not believe nor follow any man-made doctrines of faith/worship. (No preterism, KJVO myth, oneness, extreme calvinism or arminianism, etc. And our pastor finishes every sermon with reminders of the eternality of our souls, and of our final eternal destinations, and how to come to Jesus & be saved.)

 

[JD731]

Some of your "mysteries" are not mysteries. Instead, it's just poor studying and shallow teaching.

That is a non answer to my question. I asked what did your comments have to do with the current discussion.

If a man is getting his information, yea, his very words, from God and he writes them down (as Paul claims he has), and calls it a mystery that was not revealed to ages past, but is just now being revealed and explained through this special apostle of Jesus Christ, what kind of logic and thinking would provoke a commentator to go back to the writer of a past age, yea, 650 years, after he has been expressly told the mystery was hidden from those guys.

You are absolutely smarter than I am if your logic from Ephesians 3 is better than mine. I need to go to school where you went so I can learn how to reason like you. (sarcasm off).

 

[JD731]

I was listening to an IFB evangelist from Ashland, Ky, who was quite-shallow. While I can tolerate the KJVOism, this dude's a "hacker"-"For God so loved the world-AGH-that He gave His only begotten Son-AGH-". That phony grunting grates on my ears. And he deliberately uses "backwoods" English-borned, I seen, knowed, he done, etc. I've heard him carry on a conversation when not preaching, and his English is perfect. And his sermons are full of praise fpr Jesus, but little of telling people how to come to Him. While I believe he's a Christian, I don't believe he was called to preach. I myself am IFB, but our church does not believe nor follow any man-made doctrines of faith/worship. (No preterism, KJVO myth, oneness, extreme calvinism or arminianism, etc. And our pastor finishes every sermon with reminders of the eternality of our souls, and of our final eternal destinations, and how to come to Jesus & be saved.)

This does not present a convincing argument that your pastor is not shallow in his theology. I suspect from the evidence that we have that he is somewhat shallow concerning the great mysteries of the faith.

1 Cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

The great apostle Paul revealed and explained the mysteries of this age in his 13 letters.

 

[robycop3]

This does not present a convincing argument that your pastor is not shallow in his theology. I suspect from the evidence that we have that he is somewhat shallow concerning the great mysteries of the faith.

1 Cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

The great apostle Paul revealed and explained the mysteries of this age in his 13 letters.

First, the word 'charity' here is not appropriate for modern readers. We associate charity with orgs, gifts, or acts meant to felp those in need. And how do YOU know what kind or what kinda love our pastor has? The Greek word here is "agape", which means the strongest type of brotherly love. (Our pastor has explained the different types pf love in sermons before,) So, you can only guess. I'm reckoning your problem with him is that he doesn't believe the man-made doctrines you do.

 

[JD731]

First, the word 'charity' here is not appropriate for modern readers. We associate charity with orgs, gifts, or acts meant to felp those in need. And how do YOU know what kind or what kinda love our pastor has? The Greek word here is "agape", which means the strongest type of brotherly love. (Our pastor has explained the different types pf love in sermons before,) So, you can only guess. I'm reckoning your problem with him is that he doesn't believe the man-made doctrines you do.

The op aimed his guns at the IFB.

I have noticed for many years that lots of IFB pastors are really shallow and their flocks are even more so shallow. The messages have very little Biblical content, but contain lots of stories, hollering, whooping, and annunciation plays. The shallower and louder the preacher gets, the more the sheep eat it up.
The more he stomps and snorts, the happier they get. Keep wondering where the snake room is.
Why are people attracted to those type pastors? They have smaller followings, but the followers are cult like. THE OP

That is my crowd. I am trying to defend them the best I can. This is probably the only crowd that will ever be left to defend the fundamentals of the faith and learn dispensational truths from the KJV. I know there are many who have abandoned ship and are shallow, but not because of preaching methods like the op says.

Does your pastor understand the mysteries of the faith, which has this age hidden from ages past?

 

[AustinC]

The op aimed his guns at the IFB.



That is my crowd. I am trying to defend them the best I can. This is probably the only crowd that will ever be left to defend the fundamentals of the faith and learn dispensational truths from the KJV. I know there are many who have abandoned ship and are shallow, but not because of preaching methods like the op says.

Does your pastor understand the mysteries of the faith, which has this age hidden from ages past?

Those who promote dispensationalism and KJVO are, in those views, living in the shallows. Neither are "fundamentals" of the faith.

 

[JD731]

Those who promote dispensationalism and KJVO are, in those views, living in the shallows. Neither are "fundamentals" of the faith.

There is an element of truth to part of your statement, but consider the following. Rarely do you find anyone who is not a fundamentalist (IFB) but who is a dispensationalist and/or a KJV only believer. The closest one I know may be McArthur. He is a dispensationalist but one would be hard pressed to call him a fundamentalist, given his hyper Calvinism.

No, the truth is that some IFB's are contending for the faith while some have ventured to the shallow end of the pool. No doubt about it. There is no sound doctrine on that end and people are confused and cannot follow the logic of statements in the scriptures, as has been demonstrated on this thread.

 

[robycop3]

The op aimed his guns at the IFB.



That is my crowd. I am trying to defend them the best I can. This is probably the only crowd that will ever be left to defend the fundamentals of the faith and learn dispensational truths from the KJV. I know there are many who have abandoned ship and are shallow, but not because of preaching methods like the op says.

Does your pastor understand the mysteries of the faith, which has this age hidden from ages past?

OF COURSE he does. As I said, he always tells the congregation how to be saved, if anyone there is not, as well as issuing an "altar call". And there are much-better Bible versions than the KJV, in OUR English, from which to learn the dispensational truths & mysteries of faith.

 

[robycop3]

There is an element of truth to part of your statement, but consider the following. Rarely do you find anyone who is not a fundamentalist (IFB) but who is a dispensationalist and/or a KJV only believer. The closest one I know may be McArthur. He is a dispensationalist but one would be hard pressed to call him a fundamentalist, given his hyper Calvinism.

No, the truth is that some IFB's are contending for the faith while some have ventured to the shallow end of the pool. No doubt about it. There is no sound doctrine on that end and people are confused and cannot follow the logic of statements in the scriptures, as has been demonstrated on this thread.

The KJVO myth is man-made, and certainly not part of actual faith, as it's totally-false.

 

[Marooncat79]

There is an element of truth to part of your statement, but consider the following. Rarely do you find anyone who is not a fundamentalist (IFB) but who is a dispensationalist and/or a KJV only believer. The closest one I know may be McArthur. He is a dispensationalist but one would be hard pressed to call him a fundamentalist, given his hyper Calvinism.

No, the truth is that some IFB's are contending for the faith while some have ventured to the shallow end of the pool. No doubt about it. There is no sound doctrine on that end and people are confused and cannot follow the logic of statements in the scriptures, as has been demonstrated on this thread.

John Mac is NOT a hypercalvinist

That accusation alone indicates that you do not understand hypercalvinism

 

[JD731]

OF COURSE he does. As I said, he always tells the congregation how to be saved, if anyone there is not, as well as issuing an "altar call". And there are much-better Bible versions than the KJV, in OUR English, from which to learn the dispensational truths & mysteries of faith.

If anything in the scriptures is not a mystery it is how to be saved. Our Lord Jesus Christ said, "suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not, for of such is the kingdom of God." "I thank thee Father that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them unto babes." Except a man come as a little child he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

One might learn some dispensational truths without a KJV but it is not likely he can become well grounded. This is the guy who will be easily led away because he has not learned the the truths that are conveyed by the words over the entire course of biblical revelation.

God admonishes us in 1 Corinthians "to speak the same things." He knows and Satan knows that different words one hundred times over has the probability of destroying the unity of the people of God and causes division. The end result is like the Corinthians; they become carnal and shallow. Paul wanted to teach this church the mystery of Christ, which is strong meat, but was unable to because they were babes and were all saying different things. There was an apostle in the number of teachers mentioned who alone had the authority to give out NT truth and settle controversies to the gentile churches. It was Paul. Not Apollos, or Simon, or anyone else.

The philosophies of having more and more new bibles, one after the other, is satanic, and is one of the main causes for shallowness in the churches. God is not in this practice.

1 Cor 3: And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

There is one apostle, one man, to teach the gentiles what to do to please God. This is just the way God does things.

 

[JD731]

John Mac is NOT a hypercalvinist

That accusation alone indicates that you do not understand hypercalvinism

Nobody ever understands hyper Calvinism according to the hyper Calvinist who is in a corner and has no bible answer for his error.