Featured I Now Know Why Some Deny the Rapture of the Church of Jesus Christ

It is because the deniers, generally speaking, do not know what the church of Jesus Christ is and if asked to define it could not do so scripturally. If they are confused about what it is, how are they going to understand its destiny and it's doctrines?

Another reason for the failure to grasp the reality of the rapture of the church of Jesus Christ is because they do not understand that the kingdom of God on the earth is a major theme through the scriptures and their denomination's teachings have demanded they reject all the OT prophecy concerning this kingdom and have spiritualized the entire OT scriptures, as well as the NT scriptures that relate to this subject.

Most of the time when we are discussing the church we are not speaking of the same thing. Therefore we should define our terms before we discuss important biblical subjects, especially the kingdom of God and the rapture of the church, IMO.

 

This is a fair question and it demands an answer. The ammillennialists that I have discussed the doctrine of the church with have the church beginning with Adam. They do not understand that it is a new thing on the earth beginning just after the beginning of the 5th millinnium of earth's history. It is not predicted in the OT because it has always been the will of God for his people and his nation to receive their Messiah when he comes. It is important to know that Jesus when he did come presented himself as the King and preached the "gospel of the kingdom" during his earthly ministry before he ever preached his salvation. His kingdom is defined and described by the Abrahamic covenant as being an earthly kingdom with all his citizens being saved citizens. Therefore, he told Nicodemus in John 3 that one must be born again to enter into his kingdom and to see, as in perceive, his kingdom.

We know from reading about Jesus in the gospels that his nation did not receive him (He came unto his own and his own received him not Jn 1:11) but a small remnant of Jews did believe in his person as the Messiah and the Son of God (But to as many as received him to them he gave the power to become the sons fo God, even to them that believe on his name Jehovah is salvation - a new birth). Since the prophesies since the giving of the Abrahamic covenant ensured that this would be a nation of the earth forever and would be the chief nation over all the nations of the earth and would occupy the land within the borders described to Abraham. This is what Jesus came to establish on the earth and had the Jews believed in him and would have repented as a nation, then the history of the last two thousand years would have been written much differently.

One must understand that God views his people Israel in two ways. First, he views them as individuals and second, he views them as a collective one. When Israel was physically born as a nation in Egypt on the 14th day of the first month, they were born as a collective one. This is how they must be born again, as a collective one. There can be no divine kingdom on earth like that described in the OT unless the citizens of that kingdom are converted. God was willing that this happen during the first 7 years of this age after the resurrection of Christ when his apostles and prophets preached the gospel to Israel only. The national rejection is recorded in Acts 7.

God will yet accomplish the national conversion of his people Israel but it will be during a time when he purges the chaff of Israel in a baptism of fire, the definition of the day of the Lord judgements in both the new and old testament scriptures.

In the meantime, our Lord is forming his church, originally the privilege of Israel but because of their unbeief and national blindness, God included the gentiles in this body that will become his bride. She is referred to in Psa 45. This is a separate entity from Israel the nation but not separate from the kingdom of God. It is the spiritual portion of the kingdom and the gentile believers in Christ are included "that the Lord's house might be full, he says.

That is the longer answer but the short answer to your question is that the church of Jesus Christ is the spiritual part of the one kingdom which dwells with Christ and rules with him in the New Jerusalem, a satelite city, in the eternal state. Consider that Jesus in his parables gives the prophecy of this age if we will receive it. Consider this one, for instance.


15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: 17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, (The Jews) Come; for all things are now ready.

Supper time is when the work is done at the end of the day.

18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.

The Samaritans, Acts 8 (the ten scattered tribes of Israel called "strangers" by Peter in 1 Peter 1 and the scattered tribes by James in James 1.

21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.

The gentiles - Acts 10
23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled.
24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.

Those who hinder the concluding purposes of a dispensation by unbelief cannot be saved.

2 Thess 1:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

If these words do not mean what they say then just don't believe them. It is each man's perogative whether he believes or not.

The parables of Jesus chronicles this age and the end thereof and are prophetic. The history of the book of Acts proves them true and the epistles explains how to receive them.

 

You have not read Romans with any kind of understanding. It would be embarrassing to you if you could somehow suddenly understand the simple words in the text. The text says that Israel was blinded and cut off and only a remnant believed. The remnant of believing Jews is not called Israel in Romans. Israel equates to unbelievers. The believers of Israel has a name or a title. It is "the remnant according to the election of grace." I am just amazed at how you fellows demonstrate that you have never read the text but still try to advance a false teaching that is in the writings of someone who has not been able to process the information any better than you are doing.

Now, I am going to post a conclusion to the treatise that Paul has been giving since Romans 7:1 when he said he was specifically addressing those who knows the Law of Moses. I want you to understand that Romans was written in 58 AD and there has been 28 years of church history that has passed and 18 years of church history with gentiles included at the date of this writing while Paul was in Corinth in Acts 18. The relationships the Jews have with God is now through Jesus Christ and is radically different from anything they ever knew before Jesus came and died and was resurrected from the dead. I dare you amils and Reformed to read it and allow the words to mean what they say.

Ro 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

Here it is but I know you will not read it. You never have.


Rom 10:16 But they (see Romans 10:1 to see who they are) have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation (Will someone please read Hosea 1 right now) I will anger you.
20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. (here is the remnant peeled off from Israel) For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works (of the law): otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works (of the law), then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; (well who has) but the election (the small remnant) hath obtained it, and the rest (of Israel were blinded by unbelief) were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them (Israel) the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

Please read the next three verses. Questions will be answered if you will believe these simple words and transition where God transitions.

11 I say then, Have they (Israel) stumbled that they should fall? (the blindness they are experiencing in this this present time is not permanent and it has a purpose) God forbid: but rather through their (Israels) fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. ( a man ought to shout right there)

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? (answer that question)

The transition from speaking to those who know the law to those who do not.

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

The rest of this chapter is spoken to the gentiles and there are serious things to consider. This is what the gentiles should make of this present time with these circumstances that prevail to this very day.

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh (Israelites), and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? (separation from God equates to death and reconciling amounts to resurrection from the dead)

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou (gentiles) wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if (a condition not for individuals but for gentiles as the object of God's grace) thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they (Israel) also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Here it is. The future predicted It is a mystery hid in plain sight and revealed with simple words but some of you guys are still as blind as you ever were.


25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. (The gentiles are filling the house of God in the parables of Jesus)

The remnant doctrine is over when history unfolds to verse 25 and 26. From this point on, those of Israel will either be delivered or they will be dead. There will no longer be two groups of them.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

One must read the OT prophecies and believe them to understand verse 26.

Still speaking to the gentiles.
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Why not follow the logic and believe the words that are written?

 

My thread is not about justification by faith. This is true in any dispensation. My thread is about the rapture of the church and why men like you deny it. You do not understand the church and you do not understand justification by faith.

Just give you definition of the church of Jesus Christ and we will know if what I said is true of you.

 

Die on this hill, JonC. People who insist on these doctrines deny 90% of the Bible is true. They control a large segment of Christendom and they are teaching people they need not believe the words of the scriptures. This is not a small and insinificant problem. The kingdom doctrine is one major theme of the entire Bible. The first Adam was given dominion over this earth only to have it usurped by Satan and the last Adam will take it back and rule over it forever.

Psa 115:15 Ye are blessed of the LORD which made heaven and earth.
16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD’S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

 

All these things are important, yes, but I was dealing with the kingdom in relation to the church, which is a theme of the scriptures. The church of Jesus Christ is not. It was a mystery hidden from OT saints and revealed after the resurrection of Christ.

 

I do not know what to say. He did not say "when" he was going to prepare a place them and us. He just said he was going to prepare a place for you. I think it is right to assume it is in the Father's house where there are many mansions because he mentioned both in the same sentence. But he was speaking to men who will make up the foundation of his church and will write all the epistles. He said this word to those to whom he was speaking;

Mt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

There are 12 apostles and 12 thrones upon which they will one day sit. One thing is sure: Jesus has not come again like he promised but he will. That is the time frame of the promise in John 14. Read it for yourself and see. Until then it is preparation time.