I Now Know Why Some Deny the Rapture of the Church of Jesus Christ

[37818]

Christ is called the first fruits from the dead. Wouldn’t that indicate He is the beginning of the first resurrection? And Matthew says the graves were opened and saints were seen walking around.

Biblically is called in Colossians 1:18, ". . . the beginning, the firstborn from the dead . . . ."
See Romans 8:29, ". . . the firstborn among many brethren. . . ."

 

[taisto]

Amillennialism to me is a nonfundamentalist error.

The level of biblical support is fantastic. Look at Beale's commentary and you will see Old Testament references on nearly every verse since John points us to the prophets over and over again.

For most of my life I was a dyed in the wool dispensationalist, pre-trib proponent, but the more I read Revelation the more pre-trib just didn't make any sense. Someone got me interested in listening to the White Horse Inn where they have scholars from various views discuss and present. I heard Kim Riddelbarger talk and he was answering areas in Revelation that didn't make sense, using an Amillennial understanding of Revelation. Then I went to Monergism.com and heard the preaching of Eric Alexander, Voddie Baucham, and Sinclair Ferguson, which brought the whole of scripture into Revelation. The switch then became easy and the continuity of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation has opened up God's word. Going back to a very disjointed view of the Bible is something I cannot do.

 

[MrW]

Biblically is called in Colossians 1:18, ". . . the beginning, the firstborn from the dead . . . ."
See Romans 8:29, ". . . the firstborn among many brethren. . . ."

Sounds like the Lord is the firstborn of the first resurrection.

 

[37818]

Sounds like the Lord is the firstborn of the first resurrection.

The first resurrection only occurs once, Revelation 20:5-6.

 

[taisto]

The first resurrection only occurs once, Revelation 20:5-6.

That is certainly a dispensational/futurist interpretation. It causes a whole series of problems with the rest of the Bible since nowhere else in all the Bible can you ever create a third coming of Christ, like futurism does.

What are the 3 times Christ comes (according to futurists)?
1) The incarnation of Christ Jesus.
2) The return to reign for 1000 years.
3) The return to destroy all the nations Satan raises up after the exact 1000 year reign of Christ.

Now, all of prophecy only expressed the incarnation and a second return as King, so a futurist is forcing a 3rd return on Revelation 20:1-10 alone. Also, the futurist will not accept that Revelation 19 is showing the same event as Revelation 20:7-10. For the futurist, it is unimaginable that John could be returning to the same images multiple times in Revelation. For them, it must be a very strict linear timeline with no deviance. If this timeline is not kept, their whole system falls apart and all their charts become void. They spend their lives trying to be little sleuths and inspector gadgets that predict the future.

 

[37818]

What are the 3 times Christ comes (according to futurists)?
1) The incarnation of Christ Jesus.
2) The return to reign for 1000 years.
3) The return to destroy all the nations Satan raises up after the exact 1000 year reign of Christ.

Not the Biblical futurist view. There is only one second appearing. Hebrews 9:28.

 

[MrW]

The first resurrection only occurs once, Revelation 20:5-6.

Christ (and other saints) were raised.

The Church is raised pre-trib.

The believers who come to Christ during the tribulation and during the Millennium will be raised.

So the first resurrection extends from Christ all the way to Revelation 20.

 

[Silverhair]

Every translation tells you the same thing. We are presently raised to sit at the throne with Jesus. Look at the tense.

@taisto you should look at the tense.

Eph 2:6 and G2532 raised us up together G4891 (G5656), and G2532 made us sit together G4776 (G5656) in G1722 the heavenly G2032 places in G1722 Christ G5547 Jesus G2424,

G5656
Tense-Aorist See [G5777]
Voice-Active See [G5784]
Mood -Indicative See [G5791]

Tense-Aorist
The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time.

The text does not say when we will be raised up to sit with Christ. What we do know is that it was only after we have trusted in Him but whether present or future we can not say.

 

[taisto]

Not the Biblical futurist view. There is only one second appearing. Hebrews 9:28.

Does this mean you believe Jesus stays on earth and the ones who have thoroughly enjoyed Jesus turn on him to the point that you cannot number the rebels?

Honestly, do you really think that those who have enjoyed Jesus reign all rebel against him anyway...and Jesus does nothing until they surround him on Mount Zion?

Can you see how unrealistic that is?

 

[taisto]

@taisto you should look at the tense.

Eph 2:6 and G2532 raised us up together G4891 (G5656), and G2532 made us sit together G4776 (G5656) in G1722 the heavenly G2032 places in G1722 Christ G5547 Jesus G2424,

G5656
Tense-Aorist See [G5777]
Voice-Active See [G5784]
Mood -Indicative See [G5791]

Tense-Aorist
The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time.

The text does not say when we will be raised up to sit with Christ. What we do know is that it was only after we have trusted in Him but whether present or future we can not say.

The tense is past/present.

 

[MrW]

@taisto you should look at the tense.

Eph 2:6 and G2532 raised us up together G4891 (G5656), and G2532 made us sit together G4776 (G5656) in G1722 the heavenly G2032 places in G1722 Christ G5547 Jesus G2424,

G5656
Tense-Aorist See [G5777]
Voice-Active See [G5784]
Mood -Indicative See [G5791]

Tense-Aorist
The aorist tense is characterized by its emphasis on punctiliar action; that is, the concept of the verb is considered without regard for past, present, or future time.

The text does not say when we will be raised up to sit with Christ. What we do know is that it was only after we have trusted in Him but whether present or future we can not say.

Christ is on the earth in me.

I am in Heaven in Christ.

1 Corinthians 6:17.

His physical body is not on earth.

My physical body is not in Heaven.

I am raised—my body is NOT resurrected and will not be until the rapture prior to the Millennial Reign.

 

[JonC]

Thread is closed due to length.

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