"no one seeks God"

Too general and with no distinction.

The fool says there is no God in his heart; that does not make him a fool eternally either. At some point in time, many have declared there is not God, only to later repent of that foolish notion and be saved. The real fool would be one who shakes his fist in the face of God and making the foolish statement.

I agree AGAINST the dogma of calvinism/ God is not a tyrant forcing men into hell against their conscious decision to trust in God and His Supreme Sacrifice.

Calvisim is nothing more than the attempt to bring the Counsels of God down into the realm of man's reason, thus God would be the liar if this were true since He declares His thoughts higher than ours (unattainable) His ways are past finding out ( cannot fathom the depths of His wisdom) His ways are not our ways ( the perplexity of all mankind in being human and God is Divine)

I have found the calvinist to have reached into the aspect of thought and come to a dead end, of which there are no "dead ends" with God, only Living without end.

 

Helen

There is a doctrine of "progressive revelation". God has continually revealed Himself, in ever more explicit ways, culminating in Jesus Christ as the ultimate revelation of God.

That those Psalms meant, at the time they were written, the things you have said, is most likely true.

But Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, tells us in Romans 3 that those words do, in fact, refer to the entire human race. Everyone stands condemned before God; the Jews according to the Law, the Gentiles, according to their rejection of God's general revelation. Everyone has turned away and none seek God.

Salamander

You are ignorant of the beliefs of "calvinists" if you think they believe God is forcing people into hell against their will. But it would be a "dead end" and a waste of breath to try to convince you otherwise...so...

peace to you

 

I think everyone here would agree that everyone who has not accepted Christ as their Savior "stands condemned before God". But Christ is the answer!

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

Helen

Paul agrees with himself. Acts 17 gives a description of God's sovereignty/general provision for all of mankind. This is the general revelation of Romans 1. They all rejected Him. Paul is in Athens, home of a multitude of pagan temples devoted to the gods of Greek Mythology and the pagan "philosophies".

If you read a lttle farther in Acts 17, you would have seen Paul also speaks of the judgement of God coming in the person of Jesus Christ. This also agrees with what he wrote in Romans. The wrath of God is revealed from heaven. Why? None seek after God. All have gone astray.

StraightandNarrow

In the Rev. 3 passage, Christ is speaking to one of His churches. Presumably, they are already believers, but are blinded by their wealth. It is not a verse calling unbelievers to salvation, it is a verse calling believers to repentence for their arrogance.

Context is a very important.

peace to you

 

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

 

Aren't you a disciple? I thought all "true believers" were supposed to be disciples.

 

The Apostle Paul tells us:

Romans 3;10-13
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

Was the Apostle Paul misleading us?

 

Helen,

Show me a place in scripture where someone "chooses" salvation in Christ without the influence of the Holy Spirit FIRST working in them.

I can show plenty of places where the Bible says we are slaves to sin and are unable (that's right, "able") to do anything that pleases the Lord. Only when we are regenerated can we even see the kingdom of God.

 

Look particularly at verse 11.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Helen,

I am sorry for the confusion. What I posted above is a hyperlink to an article I wrote on another passage which deals with the issue of those who seek God. You need to click on it and read it.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Not necessarilty. The meaning here is probably that none seek after God on their own.

There is this passage in John:

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Because we will not seek God on our own in our flesh, the Holy Spirit has in every age been given to bring enlightenment as to our need of God.

In Genesis there is this:

Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

On the other hand we have this just before 6:5

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

So, from the beginning man has desparately sinned and apparently did also "strive" with God in the conviction/reproval of sin through the Spirit.

This IMO is a common grace gift of God to all men of all ages, to enlighten them through the Holy Spirit in conviction of sin according to the knowledge and understanding of each age.

I also see "choice" in the Scripture and conclude that God (being God), can free the will of even the unregenerate (gasp!) when conviction has born its fruit and offer the sinner a choice.

Now, does God know the choice the individual will make?

Yes, but there is an operative phrase in the Scripture "to fulfill all righteousness" and "to shut every mouth" no sinner will be able to say "you didn't give me a choice or the ability to choose".

Beyond that I personally choose not to venture (apart from the Scripture below) or subscribe to any theology with a man's name attached to it (other than Scripture through the apostles via the inspiration of the Spirit).

Everything else is covered by the following:

Genesis 18:25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

HankD

 

edit: here is the quote:
Acts 17:26-27 -- From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. </font>[/QUOTE]Even Scofield had enough sense to realize that you have to "rightly divide the word of truth".