The Birth of Israel

We can learn about rebirth from Israel's history. They went into Egypt with seventy
individuals, Exodus 1 tells us: "Now these are the names of Bnei-Yisrael who came
into Egypt with Jacob, each man with his family.....The souls that came out of the
line numbered 70 in all, while Joseph was already in Egypt" (vv. 1,5). Consider that
Israel went in as a group of only 70 souls but came out numbering in the millions!

The word for Egypt in Hebrew is Mitzraim, "a place of confinement or restriction."
Mitzraim comes from the root word tzur, which means "rock." In Jewish thought,
Egypt is considered the womb of civilization. The people in Israel was in exile for
about four hundred years. Four hundred is a multiple of forty. And forty weeks is
a full term pregnancy. So, they were in Egypt symbolically as a full term
pregnancy----not weeks but years. Egypt was the womb. The ten plagues brought
on the Egyptians were labor pains, the shaking and quaking. When the Israelites
left Egypt, they went in great haste. (This is one of the reasons we eat matzah,
unleavened bread---they left so quickly that their bread did not have time to rise.)
They were instructed to eat Passover with their loins girded and their staffs in hand.

Pregnancy can seem to be taking forever for expectant parents, and then boom!
The baby comes---often with little warning, in the middle of the night or while we
are fully engaged in something else. We can use the human birth process as an
analogy for the birth of Israel. The parting of the Red Sea was like the woman's
water breaking. Israel going through the Red Sea was like the baby going through
the birth canal. The water closing in on the Egyptian army after Israel had passed
is symbolic of God washing away their past. The old was passing away, and the new
was coming. The water closed, and they could not go back to Egypt. He was birthing
them from an enslaved people into a redeemed free nation.

As Israel could not physically return to Egypt, neither can we physically return to our
mothers' wombs. The people of Israel was born naturally with some divine intervention.
To grow as a nation---the people of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob---twelve tribes had to have
a physical birth. But they were not born supernaturally as a free nation until they escaped
Egypt. And so they had two births. They were naturally birthed through Abraham, Isaac, and
Jacob, and they went to Egypt. God used their time in Egypt to birth them as a redeemed
nation and caused a supernatural multiplication---incredibly, from seventy to millions.
This is what we read in Exodus 1:6-7:
"Then Joseph died, as did all his brothers and all that generation. Yet Bnei-Yisrael were fruitful,
increased abundantly, multiplied and grew extremely numerous---so the land was filled with
them"

Shalom

David Koberstein said:

The word for Egypt in Hebrew is Mitzraim, "a place of confinement or restriction."

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Revelation Chapter 11

David Koberstein said:

Joseph

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Joseph as a type of Christ

kyredneck said:

Revelation Chapter 11

8​	And their dead bodies lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

Joseph as a type of Christ

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Unfortunately Joseph and other Old Testament figures are not a type of Christ.
They are Adonai's chosen people not to be compared to Yeshua Hamashiach. There is only one Yeshua Hamashiach and nothing. comes close in comparison.
Shabbat Shalom

David Koberstein said:

Unfortunately Joseph and other Old Testament figures are not a type of Christ.
They are Adonai's chosen people not to be compared to Yeshua Hamashiach. There is only one Yeshua Hamashiach and nothing. comes close in comparison.
Shabbat Shalom

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Ah, you don't understand what a "type" is. They are NOT Christ, but types in the Old Testament are people or events or even objects that point the way to Christ or predict him.

In the Old Testament, there are MANY.

Scarlett O. said:

Ah, you don't understand what a "type" is. They are NOT Christ, but types in the Old Testament are people or events or even objects that point the way to Christ or predict him.

In the Old Testament, there are MANY.

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The most important thing in the Tanakh is genealogies and numbers. Those 2 things point the way to Messiah. Not types. I do understand because I study Hebrew and am a Messianic Jew.
Shabbat Shalom

David Koberstein said:

The most important thing in the Tanakh is genealogies and numbers. Those 2 things point the way to Messiah. Not types. I do understand because I study Hebrew and am a Messianic Jew.
Shabbat Shalom

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I'm not concerned with your ethnicity. Anyone of any ethnicity can be saved by Christ and read the Bible and understand it. Frankly, I'm concerned that you make up these allegories that just don't make any sense. Such as Israel being enslaved about 400 years and 400 is divisible by 40 and 40 is the time of pregnancy ergo the 400 years is the birth of Israel.

Those numbers are not in scripture the way you place them and ergo your allegory claiming a hidden mystery is not relevant.

Here are some types of Christ in the Tanakh. There are also some antitypes.

1.] The Bronze Serpent in Numbers 21 = Jesus Christ, HIMSELF, compared himself to this serpent. In John 3:14-16, Jesus said, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life."

2.] Isaac = Abraham was asked by God to kill his "only" [Genesis 22:2] son, Isaac. Abraham followed God's instruction. Isaac accepted his fate. God stopped him. Hebrews 11 says that Abraham obeyed because he knew that God would bring Isaac back from the dead and that "in a manner of speaking that is what happened." [Hebrews 11:19] God provided a sacrifice.

3.] Jacob's ladder = Again, Jesus Christ, HIMSELF, makes this comparison in John 1:50-51. Jesus said to Nathaniel, “Because I said to you, ‘I saw you under the fig tree,’ do you believe? You will see greater things than these.” And he said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”

I could go on and on and on. I've read the Bible and taught the Bible for over 40 years. My father taught me to love the Old Testament. Trust me, there is FAR, FAR more to the Tanakh than genealogies and numbers. Those are important, yes, but the Tanakh is FILLED with so much more.

Scarlett O. said:

Ah, you don't understand what a "type" is. They are NOT Christ, but types in the Old Testament are people or events or even objects that point the way to Christ or predict him.

In the Old Testament, there are MANY.

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The

Scarlett O. said:

I'm not concerned with your ethnicity. Anyone of any ethnicity can be saved by Christ and read the Bible and understand it. Frankly, I'm concerned that you make up these allegories that just don't make any sense. Such as Israel being enslaved about 400 years and 400 is divisible by 40 and 40 is the time of pregnancy ergo the 400 years is the birth of Israel.

Those numbers are not in scripture the way you place them and ergo your allegory claiming a hidden mystery is not relevant.

Here are some types of Christ in the Tanakh. There are also some antitypes.

1.] The Bronze Serpent in Numbers 21 = Jesus Christ, HIMSELF, compared himself to this serpent. In John 3:14-16, Jesus said, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life."

2.] Isaac = Abraham was asked by God to kill his "only" [Genesis 22:2] son, Isaac. Abraham followed God's instruction. Isaac accepted his fate. God stopped him. Hebrews 11 says that Abraham obeyed because he knew that God would bring Isaac back from the dead and that "in a manner of speaking that is what happened." [Hebrews 11:19] God provided a sacrifice.

3.] Jacob's ladder = Again, Jesus Christ, HIMSELF, makes this comparison in John 1:50-51. Jesus said to Nathaniel, “Because I said to you, ‘I saw you under the fig tree,’ do you believe? You will see greater things than these.” And he said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”

I could go on and on and on. I've read the Bible and taught the Bible for over 40 years. My father taught me to love the Old Testament. Trust me, there is FAR, FAR more to the Tanakh than genealogies and numbers. Those are important, yes, but the Tanakh is FILLED with so much more.

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Those are NOT types but someone trying to make something out of nothing, because they don't understand the Hebrew or do not want to learn Hebrew. The Bible is a Jewish book and every writer was Jewish. The Bible needs to be studied and look at through the Jewish lense as it was written. Christians only study and concentrate on the New Covenant and gleam and gloss over the Old Covenant. The Orthodox and Reform Jews on study and concentrate on the Old Covenant. Messianic Jews and me included study both Covenants because they are both connected and one is just as important as the other.
I'm not making anything up like "Types". I study the literal Hebrew, the culture and the writings of the Rabbinical rabbis and sages. Not some evangelical charlatan hiding behind a sex scandal or selling a name it or claim it theology with a healthy dose of legalism thrown in.
Back to my point Genealogies and Numbers matter in the Old Covenant. Why do you think they went out of their way to list these genealogies in both Covenants? Messiah's genealogy is listed in detail in the B'rit Hadashah. If it wasn't important than why is it listed in the first place?
Numbers are important because that is the code of creation. I will let you wrap your head around that one.
Since 1900, 25% of the Nobel Prize winners have been Jewish. But Jews only make up .2% of the world's population. Let that sink in.
Blessings in Yeshua our Messiah
Shabbat Shalom

Since this is a topic on Israel and Egypt, and “typologies” have been mentioned, but not really explained clearly, I would like to offer an observation on Israel, Egypt, “typologies” and focus on just one very specific event with an explanation of how it points to Christ and reveals something about the Christ that was to come (foreshadowing His arrival and mission).

Let’s talk about the PASSOVER.

God had condemned all the firstborn to death. There was no exception, there was no appeal, the sentence had been read and only its execution by the Angel of Death remained. There was no merit that could save any firstborn … only an appeal to the mercy of God could spare anyone. That is a “typology” that points to the sin of mankind and the reality that the “wages of sin is death”, so we are all under condemnation of death unless God provides the mercy for us as he provided it in the Passover.

God DID provide mercy … the Passover lamb. This, too, is a typology. It points us to another Lamb of God that would be sent to protect some (the ‘chosen people’) from the judgement of God. Think of all the symbolic parallels. The lamb had to be without blemish, just as the CHRIST would have to be “a sinless Lamb of God”. The lamb would have to be slain, just as the CHRIST would have to be slain. The blood of the lamb would only protect the household of those that ACTED UPON THEIR FAITH and placed the blood upon the lintel and doorposts, just as CHRIST is only of effect to “whosoever believes”.

All of these parallels between the PASSOVER in Egypt and the work of the CHRIST when he finally came, make the Passover a “typology” of what was to come. A picture in the OT to help us understand the REALITY when He finally appeared.

I hope that at least explains the CONCEPT better. You may still 100% disagree, but at least, now, the disagreement is not just “semantics”.

atpollard said:

Since this is a topic on Israel and Egypt, and “typologies” have been mentioned, but not really explained clearly, I would like to offer an observation on Israel, Egypt, “typologies” and focus on just one very specific event with an explanation of how it points to Christ and reveals something about the Christ that was to come (foreshadowing His arrival and mission).

Let’s talk about the PASSOVER.

God had condemned all the firstborn to death. There was no exception, there was no appeal, the sentence had been read and only its execution by the Angel of Death remained. There was no merit that could save any firstborn … only an appeal to the mercy of God could spare anyone. That is a “typology” that points to the sin of mankind and the reality that the “wages of sin is death”, so we are all under condemnation of death unless God provides the mercy for us as he provided it in the Passover.

God DID provide mercy … the Passover lamb. This, too, is a typology. It points us to another Lamb of God that would be sent to protect some (the ‘chosen people’) from the judgement of God. Think of all the symbolic parallels. The lamb had to be without blemish, just as the CHRIST would have to be “a sinless Lamb of God”. The lamb would have to be slain, just as the CHRIST would have to be slain. The blood of the lamb would only protect the household of those that ACTED UPON THEIR FAITH and placed the blood upon the lintel and doorposts, just as CHRIST is only of effect to “whosoever believes”.

All of these parallels between the PASSOVER in Egypt and the work of the CHRIST when he finally came, make the Passover a “typology” of what was to come. A picture in the OT to help us understand the REALITY when He finally appeared.

I hope that at least explains the CONCEPT better. You may still 100% disagree, but at least, now, the disagreement is not just “semantics”.

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Yes I disagree, because the Israelites leaving Egypt had no inclination about a Messiah to come. It's easy to look on the other side of Messiah's execution stake so to speak and try to make arguments about certain things.
I use the word execution stake because the word 'cross' is very offensive to a Jew. It's like using the 'N' word to an African American.
There are over 200 Christian denominations because of people taking liberties with the Word of God trying to make out something that isn't really there and tricking people into thinking their denomination is the true way.
There are only 4 Jewish denominations.
Orthodox, Reform, Conservative and Messianic. I consider the Messianic to be a mixture of Judaism and Christianity.
Christianity was born out of Judaism. Without Judaism there would be no Christianity.
Shabbat Shalom

David Koberstein said:

Yes I disagree, because the Israelites leaving Egypt had no inclination about a Messiah to come. It's easy to look on the other side of Messiah's execution stake so to speak and try to make arguments about certain things.
I use the word execution stake because the word 'cross' is very offensive to a Jew. It's like using the 'N' word to an African American.
There are over 200 Christian denominations because of people taking liberties with the Word of God trying to make out something that isn't really there and tricking people into thinking their denomination is the true way.
There are only 4 Jewish denominations.
Orthodox, Reform, Conservative and Messianic. I consider the Messianic to be a mixture of Judaism and Christianity.
Christianity was born out of Judaism. Without Judaism there would be no Christianity.
Shabbat Shalom

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I have no objection whatsoever to people disagreeing with me (I am accustomed to it), however, the overwhelming majority of your post in response to me seemed completely unrelated to G_d foreshadowing details of the Messiah in people and events recorded in the OT (the essence of “typologies”).

The question is what did G_d intend, not what did the people know. For example, when G_d said “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." - Genesis 3:15, did G_D know what would happen to the Messiah? [even if Eve did not understand].

atpollard said:

I have no objection whatsoever to people disagreeing with me (I am accustomed to it), however, the overwhelming majority of your post in response to me seemed completely unrelated to G_d foreshadowing details of the Messiah in people and events recorded in the OT (the essence of “typologies”).

The question is what did G_d intend, not what did the people know. For example, when G_d said “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." - Genesis 3:15, did G_D know what would happen to the Messiah? [even if Eve did not understand].

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Yes He does, because Adonai is all knowing.
I appreciate your respect for Adonai's name using G_d. You must be Jewish , because no Christian would do that. People disagree with me also. That's human nature. I try to study G_ds Word through Jewish eyes and not through Western eyes. Toda for you insight and response.
Shabbat Shalom

David Koberstein said:

Those are NOT types but someone trying to make something out of nothing, because they don't understand the Hebrew or do not want to learn Hebrew. The Bible is a Jewish book and every writer was Jewish. The Bible needs to be studied and look at through the Jewish lense as it was written. Christians only study and concentrate on the New Covenant and gleam and gloss over the Old Covenant. The Orthodox and Reform Jews on study and concentrate on the Old Covenant. Messianic Jews and me included study both Covenants because they are both connected and one is just as important as the other.
I'm not making anything up like "Types". I study the literal Hebrew, the culture and the writings of the Rabbinical rabbis and sages. Not some evangelical charlatan hiding behind a sex scandal or selling a name it or claim it theology with a healthy dose of legalism thrown in.
Back to my point Genealogies and Numbers matter in the Old Covenant. Why do you think they went out of their way to list these genealogies in both Covenants? Messiah's genealogy is listed in detail in the B'rit Hadashah. If it wasn't important than why is it listed in the first place?
Numbers are important because that is the code of creation. I will let you wrap your head around that one.
Since 1900, 25% of the Nobel Prize winners have been Jewish. But Jews only make up .2% of the world's population. Let that sink in.
Blessings in Yeshua our Messiah
Shabbat Shalom

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You didn't listen to a word that I said. And what do Nobel Prize winners have to do with Bible types? I have a Jewish acquantance who is in America now and is going to speak at my church Sunday night to bring a report of the goings on in Israel before she goes back to Israel. I am going to ask her if she knows what a Bible type is.

I SAID that the genealogies and numbers were important!!! My very words!!

I SAID that my father taught me to love the Old Testament. I SAID that I have read and taught the entire Bible for 40 years!! Every single word!!

Your sentence that I have highlighted is VERY offensive. You paint us as all the same and negatively. Why? Is that why you registered here? To put down all the Christians as stupid and evil? Why are you acting like I have attacked Jews? That's a sin!

I'm done here. You are not listening. As a moderator, I will be watching.

David Koberstein said:

The

Those are NOT types but someone trying to make something out of nothing, because they don't understand the Hebrew or do not want to learn Hebrew. The Bible is a Jewish book and every writer was Jewish. The Bible needs to be studied and look at through the Jewish lense as it was written. Christians only study and concentrate on the New Covenant and gleam and gloss over the Old Covenant. The Orthodox and Reform Jews on study and concentrate on the Old Covenant. Messianic Jews and me included study both Covenants because they are both connected and one is just as important as the other.
I'm not making anything up like "Types". I study the literal Hebrew, the culture and the writings of the Rabbinical rabbis and sages. Not some evangelical charlatan hiding behind a sex scandal or selling a name it or claim it theology with a healthy dose of legalism thrown in.
Back to my point Genealogies and Numbers matter in the Old Covenant. Why do you think they went out of their way to list these genealogies in both Covenants? Messiah's genealogy is listed in detail in the B'rit Hadashah. If it wasn't important than why is it listed in the first place?
Numbers are important because that is the code of creation. I will let you wrap your head around that one.
Since 1900, 25% of the Nobel Prize winners have been Jewish. But Jews only make up .2% of the world's population. Let that sink in.
Blessings in Yeshua our Messiah
Shabbat Shalom

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Are you saying there are no types in the OT? I'm not following you.

Are you aware that the English word "type" comes from a NT Greek word, τύπος, which occurs in 15 NT verses? And a number of times it means exactly what theologians mean by "type"? Joseph was indeed a type, and there are other types in the OT? (And that's where Baptist theologians get the term "type," of course.) But you seem to be denying the validity of the NT for Christian churches. Are you?

And why in the world are you bringing up "evangelical charlatans" and "sex scandals" on a Baptist debate site? You are apparently not even Baptist? Yet here you are on the Baptist sections of our website. The least you could do is be respectful of us Baptists if you're going to post here. (Not my business to tell you to get lost." )

Scarlett O. said:

You didn't listen to a word that I said. And what do Nobel Prize winners have to do with Bible types? I have a Jewish acquantance who is in America now and is going to speak at my church Sunday night to bring a report of the goings on in Israel before she goes back to Israel. I am going to ask her if she knows what a Bible type is.

I SAID that the genealogies and numbers were important!!! My very words!!

I SAID that my father taught me to love the Old Testament. I SAID that I have read and taught the entire Bible for 40 years!! Every single word!!

Your sentence that I have highlighted is VERY offensive. You paint us as all the same and negatively. Why? Is that why you registered here? To put down all the Christians as stupid and evil? Why are you acting like I have attacked Jews? That's a sin!

I'm done here. You are not listening. As a moderator, I will be watching.

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We just had a speaker in our church and college chapel who is a representative of a mission to reach Jews for Christ.

Scarlett O. said:

You didn't listen to a word that I said. And what do Nobel Prize winners have to do with Bible types? I have a Jewish acquantance who is in America now and is going to speak at my church Sunday night to bring a report of the goings on in Israel before she goes back to Israel. I am going to ask her if she knows what a Bible type is.

I SAID that the genealogies and numbers were important!!! My very words!!

I SAID that my father taught me to love the Old Testament. I SAID that I have read and taught the entire Bible for 40 years!! Every single word!!

Your sentence that I have highlighted is VERY offensive. You paint us as all the same and negatively. Why? Is that why you registered here? To put down all the Christians as stupid and evil? Why are you acting like I have attacked Jews? That's a sin!

I'm done here. You are not listening. As a moderator, I will be watching.

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I'm not putting down all Christians as stupid and evil. I worship and am a member of a Southern Baptist Church, because there is no Messianic church in my county to worship at. The Southern Baptist statement of faith is almost a carbon copy of the Messianic statement of faith. These people know I am a Messianic Jew and have welcomed me as a brother. They have not tried to make a Gentile out of me, nor have I tried to make Messianic Jews out of them. My statement might be offensive, but there is truth in it.
I do philanthropy in my church, even though I do not believe in tithing. I financially help elderly people in need whether Gentile or Jew. Like I said in an earlier post I see Jewish influence in America, but very little Christian influence. Church attendance in America is at an all time low. Why? Maybe you can figure that one out. The reason I mentioned the Noble Prize winners is that Jews are Adonai's chosen people. Adonai has undeservingly blessed us as a people.
Salvation comes from the Jews. I listening but you are not listening or comprehending what I am saying. With my last name being Koberstein I have experienced more antisemitism and discrimination than you ever will. My relatives are in the Holocaust museum being gassed to death in a concentration camp because they were Jews .
If you are done with me I will wish you Messiah's Blessing and Grace.
Shabbat Shalom

John of Japan said:

Are you saying there are no types in the OT? I'm not following you.

Are you aware that the English word "type" comes from a NT Greek word, τύπος, which occurs in 15 NT verses? And a number of times it means exactly what theologians mean by "type"? Joseph was indeed a type, and there are other types in the OT? (And that's where Baptist theologians get the term "type," of course.) But you seem to be denying the validity of the NT for Christian churches. Are you?

And why in the world are you bringing up "evangelical charlatans" and "sex scandals" on a Baptist debate site? You are apparently not even Baptist? Yet here you are on the Baptist sections of our website. The least you could do is be respectful of us Baptists if you're going to post here. (Not my business to tell you to get lost." )

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I am a member of a Southern Baptist Church.
This denomination isn't immune to sex scandals. They are still paying money to settle sex abuse cases. I apologize if I offended you in any way. I would not make a statement if there was no truth in it. As a Messianic Jew we study genealogies, customs, culture and numbers in the Tanakh. We look at the literal Hebrew in the Masoretic Text. We look at the Scriptures through Jewish eyes, not Western eyes. If you like types than go for it. As a Messianic I prefer to look at genealogies, customs, culture, and numbers in the Tanakh. I also look at the B'rit Hadashah the same way.
Blessings in our Messiah
Shabbat Shalom

Scarlett O. said:

You didn't listen to a word that I said. And what do Nobel Prize winners have to do with Bible types? I have a Jewish acquantance who is in America now and is going to speak at my church Sunday night to bring a report of the goings on in Israel before she goes back to Israel. I am going to ask her if she knows what a Bible type is.

I SAID that the genealogies and numbers were important!!! My very words!!

I SAID that my father taught me to love the Old Testament. I SAID that I have read and taught the entire Bible for 40 years!! Every single word!!

Your sentence that I have highlighted is VERY offensive. You paint us as all the same and negatively. Why? Is that why you registered here? To put down all the Christians as stupid and evil? Why are you acting like I have attacked Jews? That's a sin!

I'm done here. You are not listening. As a moderator, I will be watching.

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If you had taught the entire Bible for 40 years,
you should be fluent in Hebrew and possibly Greek. Who is this 'us' you are referring to in your response? I am not putting down all Christians as stupid and evil. I have a poor elderly Gentile Christian person from a Baptist Church across town come to me for financial help in purchasing new hearing aids to replace her 15yr old hearing aids. Because her Baptist Church refused to help her. They said it wasn't in their budget. I paid for her top of the line hearing aids and gave her her hearing back. She now can hear the birds sing and her pastors sermon on Sunday. She had tears in her eyes when she thanked me. Does that sound like a put down of Christians as stupid and evil.
I recently helped another elderly Gentile woman in my Baptist Church get her furnace fixed that quit working in this last cold spell.
I have been blessed with financial resources and I intend to help.people in need regardless if they are Jew or Gentile. I believe that is what Adonai requires of us. We can't take it with us. I never did see a hearst pulling a U-Haul to the cemetery.
Shalom

David Koberstein said:

I am a member of a Southern Baptist Church.
This denomination isn't immune to sex scandals. They are still paying money to settle sex abuse cases. I apologize if I offended you in any way. I would not make a statement if there was no truth in it. As a Messianic Jew we study genealogies, customs, culture and numbers in the Tanakh. We look at the literal Hebrew in the Masoretic Text. We look at the Scriptures through Jewish eyes, not Western eyes. If you like types than go for it. As a Messianic I prefer to look at genealogies, customs, culture, and numbers in the Tanakh. I also look at the B'rit Hadashah the same way.
Blessings in our Messiah
Shabbat Shalom

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By your own admission, you have only been a believer that Jesus is the Christ, for a few years. You are exhibiting the very same flaw that has always plagued the Jews. Self-magnification.

If you can learn to humble yourself, you can begin to grow. You haven't yet understood what Israel's role is in God's Sovereign plan. Israel is akin to the firstborn that makes all of the mistakes.

Starting with the generation that came out of Egypt, of which ALL the males from 20 years old and older perished in the wilderness, save Joshua and Caleb. 2 lived and entered Canaan conquering, approximately 600,000 did not.

And culminating with the generation that the LORD will cleanse and give His Spirit after the age of Grace. Exactly as prophesied in Ezekiel chapters 36 and 37.
Exhibiting God's faithfulness regardless of Israel's virtually perpetual unfaithfulness. Those redemption chapters lend no room for pride. It's ALL about God's Grace and faithfulness.

The sooner you learn, that during the Age of Grace, which we are still in, there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile. There is only the lost and the saved. The saved Are the Church.

If you can humble yourself, and have a genuine desire to learn, I can steer you to a man that came out of Orthodox Judaism Rabbinic family more than 50 years ago and has been in Baptist ministry for 50 years.

xlsdraw said:

By your own admission, you have only been a believer that Jesus is the Christ, for a few years. You are exhibiting the very same flaw that has always plagued the Jews. Self-magnification.

If you can learn to humble yourself, you can begin to grow. You haven't yet understood what Israel's role is in God's Sovereign plan. Israel is akin to the firstborn that makes all of the mistakes.

Starting with the generation that came out of Egypt, of which ALL the males from 20 years old and older perished in the wilderness, save Joshua and Caleb. 2 lived and entered Canaan conquering, approximately 600,000 did not.

And culminating with the generation that the LORD will cleanse and give His Spirit after the age of Grace. Exactly as prophesied in Ezekiel chapters 36 and 37.
Exhibiting God's faithfulness regardless of Israel's virtually perpetual unfaithfulness. Those redemption chapters lend no room for pride. It's ALL about God's Grace and faithfulness.

The sooner you learn, that during the Age of Grace, which we are still in, there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile. There is only the lost and the saved. The saved Are the Church.

If you can humble yourself, and have a genuine desire to learn, I can steer you to a man that came out of Orthodox Judaism Rabbinic family more than 50 years ago and has been in Baptist ministry for 50 years.

Click to expand...

I am already humble. While there is no difference between Jew and Gentile the Jews and me included are Adonai's chosen people. You or anyone else will not change that, because it is an everlasting covenant as are all the covenants in the Tanakh which are still in force.
I'm in no need of instruction from a stranger.
I have an extensive Messianic library in my home which I study and pray on Shabbat our
commanded day of rest. Besides I downstream LoveIsrael with Baruch Korman which I financially support. I'm also a member of the Messianic Jewish Alliance of America and the Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations. I worship at the Baptist church on Sunday and then come home and work usually mowing my yard and trimming my rose bushes.
You sound like a "Replacement Theology" person. I despise Replacement Theology.
The Church has not replaced Israel as the apple of G_ds eye.
Shalom Aleichem

David Koberstein said:

I am a member of a Southern Baptist Church.
This denomination isn't immune to sex scandals. They are still paying money to settle sex abuse cases. I apologize if I offended you in any way. I would not make a statement if there was no truth in it. As a Messianic Jew we study genealogies, customs, culture and numbers in the Tanakh. We look at the literal Hebrew in the Masoretic Text. We look at the Scriptures through Jewish eyes, not Western eyes. If you like types than go for it. As a Messianic I prefer to look at genealogies, customs, culture, and numbers in the Tanakh. I also look at the B'rit Hadashah the same way.
Blessings in our Messiah
Shabbat Shalom

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By your own admission, you have only been a believer that Jesus is the Christ, for a few years. You are exhibiting the very same flaw that has always plagued the Jews. Self-magnification.

If you can learn to humble yourself, you can begin to grow. You haven't yet understood what Israel's role is in God's Sovereign plan. Israel is akin to the firstborn that makes all of the mistakes.

Starting with the generation that came out of Egypt, of which ALL the males from 20 years old and older perished in the wilderness, save Joshua and Caleb. 2 lived and entered Canaan conquering, approximately 600,000 did not.

And culminating with the generation that the LORD will cleanse and give His Spirit after the age of Grace. Exactly as prophesied in Ezekiel chapters 36 and 37.
Exhibiting God's faithfulness regardless of Israel's virtually perpetual unfaithfulness. Those redemption chapters lend no room for pride. It's ALL about God's Grace and faithfulness.

The sooner you learn, that during the Age of Grace, which we are still in, there is no difference between the Jew and the Gentile. There is only the lost and the saved. The saved Are the Church.

If you can humble yourself, and have a genuine desire to learn, I can steer you to a man that came out of Orthodox Judaism Rabbinic family more than 50 years ago and has been in Baptist ministry for 50 years.

Il