Is Unbelief a sin ?

Silverhair · Feb 20, 2025

Dave G said:
Sir, I encourage you to read and understand the whole council of God.
When a person fails to identify who is being spoken to and about in a particular passage of His word, one gets a distorted understanding of the love that the Lord has for those that He has saved.

Yes you need to read the whole council of God and not build a theology on selected verses.

God has shown His love for His creation by sending His son to be the savior of those that would freely trust in Him.

We are all lost ungodly sinners in need of a savior.

My prayer for you is that you will come to see and understand the love that God has for all of His creation not just the select few that you seem to think He loves.

Brightfame52 · Feb 21, 2025

Silverhair said:
As I said before
Adam’s sin was an act of disobedience which resulted in separation from God and led to humanity’s fall and one's death.
Abraham’s tithe was an act of faith that affirmed God’s provision and pointed toward the possibility of one's reconciliation and divine blessing.

Yes all men sin but the bible does not say we are guilty of Adam's sin. That is a view that calvinists have read into the text.

You are trying to equate Levi's tithe to our sin. Biblically that does not work.

Heb 7:9 Even Levi, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, so to speak,
Heb 7:10 for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.

Take care of what you want to find in these verses BF. Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek and this showed his superiority to Abraham. By extension Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek. To equate that to mankind being guilty of Adam's sin requires you to read into the text as God told us what the consequences of Adam's sin were. Did you see that all were now guilty of Adam's sin in the text?

What we do find in the bible is this
Eze_18:20 "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Levi paying tithes does not equate to mankind be guilty of the sin of Adam.
And the bible actually makes that clear
Rom_5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

So are you now going to say only some are guilty of Adam's sin?

Okay so its unfortunate, God hasn't given you understanding of this truth, I as well as others have reasoned with you via scripture, and you resist, so be it.

David Lamb · Feb 21, 2025

Silverhair said:
Yes you need to read the whole council of God and not build a theology on selected verses.

God has shown His love for His creation by sending His son to be the savior of those that would freely trust in Him.

We are all lost ungodly sinners in need of a savior.

My prayer for you is that you will come to see and understand the love that God has for all of His creation not just the select few that you seem to think He loves.

Where does your idea of a "select few" come from? I believe in the doctrines of grace, sometimes called Calvinism, and I don't believe that only a few will be saved. God saves all who believe on His Son. Those who do are those whom the Father gives to the Son:

“"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.” (Joh 6:37 NKJV)

Just because I, and others who believe the Doctrines of Grace, don't believe that everybody will be saved, that certainly doesn't mean that we believe that only a "select few" will be saved.

Van · Feb 21, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
@Van

Not the elect, that part of humanity chosen in Christ, and Christ died for. They enter this world free of condemnation, Christ took care of that for them. However they do enter into the world as ungodly sinners, just not condemned.

Not to put to fine a point on it, but the elect are believers! Duh There are chosen through "faith in the truth."

Silverhair · Feb 21, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
Okay so its unfortunate, God hasn't given you understanding of this truth, I as well as others have reasoned with you via scripture, and you resist, so be it.

I have reasoned with many on this board via scripture but they seem to prefer to reject the word of God and instead trust what Augustine or Calvin have said, so be it.

Silverhair · Feb 21, 2025

David Lamb said:
Where does your idea of a "select few" come from? I believe in the doctrines of grace, sometimes called Calvinism, and I don't believe that only a few will be saved. God saves all who believe on His Son. Those who do are those whom the Father gives to the Son:

“"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.” (Joh 6:37 NKJV)

Just because I, and others who believe the Doctrines of Grace, don't believe that everybody will be saved, that certainly doesn't mean that we believe that only a "select few" will be saved.

Then you do not hold to the view that God choose who would be saved prior to creation. Is that right?

FYI the only ones that think everybody would be saved are universalist's but that view is not biblical is it?

IF you do not think your TULIP leads to the "select few" being saved you need to read it again.

What does God say
1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

What does TULIP say
Only those that are included in the Unconditional Election that will partake of the Limited Atonement will then be drawn to God by His Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God.
Your own theology precludes this, but you it seems do not want to acknowledge that fact.

Calvinist theology has made the good faith offer of salvation moot. If, according to Calvinism, you are not part of this select group then you are doomed form the start.

Brightfame52 · Feb 21, 2025

Van said:
Not to put to fine a point on it, but the elect are believers! Duh There are chosen through "faith in the truth."

The elect are believers, but they weren't born believers, but since Christ paid for their sin debt, their unbelief with the rest of their sins have been taken away, they are part of this world Jn 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Brightfame52 · Feb 21, 2025

Silverhair said:
I have reasoned with many on this board via scripture but they seem to prefer to reject the word of God and instead trust what Augustine or Calvin have said, so be it.

So be it !

Van · Feb 22, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
The elect are believers, but they weren't born believers, but since Christ paid for their sin debt, their unbelief with the rest of their sins have been taken away, they are part of this world Jn 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Did anyone say the elect were born believers? Nope. Did I indicate no one is born "elect?" Yes 1 Peter 2:9-10.

Only believers become elect, as God has credited their faith as righteousness.

Did anyone say the Lamb of God does not take away the sin of the humanity, one sinner at a time? Nope

Brightfame52 · Feb 22, 2025

Van said:
Did anyone say the elect were born believers? Nope. Did I indicate no one is born "elect?" Yes 1 Peter 2:9-10.

Only believers become elect, as God has credited their faith as righteousness.

Did anyone say the Lamb of God does not take away the sin of the humanity, one sinner at a time? Nope

Im just saying the elect arent born believers, in fact they are born dead in trespasses and sins even as everyone else, the difference however is they aren't condemned for anything when they are born, not even unbelief, because Jesus took it away. Jn 1:29, also they are born righteous because of Christ.

Van · Feb 23, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
Im just saying the elect arent born believers, in fact they are born dead in trespasses and sins even as everyone else, the difference however is they aren't condemned for anything when they are born, not even unbelief, because Jesus took it away. Jn 1:29, also they are born righteous because of Christ.

And I am just saying when conceived, every human is condemned already for unbelief. John 1:29 says Jesus takes away (present tense) sin, not that He took away the sin of some before creation.

Brightfame52 · Feb 23, 2025

Van said:
And I am just saying when conceived, every human is condemned already for unbelief. John 1:29 says Jesus takes away (present tense) sin, not that He took away the sin of some before creation.

And you are just saying gross error, not one human being Christ died for is born condemned. It doesent matter what tense its in, Jesus was taking away the sin of the world, and He finished the work Jn 19:30

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

So therefore He fulfilled the prophecy of Daniel Dan 9:24

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Even before He actually died, all the sins of the elect world was already charged to Him, and not to them, so their sin of unbelief was still charged to Him, and all the rest of their sins, they couldnt condemn Him and them at the same time.

Van · Feb 24, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
And you are just saying gross error, not one human being Christ died for is born condemned. It doesent matter what tense its in, Jesus was taking away the sin of the world, and He finished the work Jn 19:30

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

So therefore He fulfilled the prophecy of Daniel Dan 9:24

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Even before He actually died, all the sins of the elect world was already charged to Him, and not to them, so their sin of unbelief was still charged to Him, and all the rest of their sins, they couldnt condemn Him and them at the same time.

Utter nonsense.

What was finished was the Lamb of God providing the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2.

You have and continue to ignore 1 Peter 2:9-10 which says we were once "not a people" chosen for God's own possession. This precludes being chosen individually before our creation. Full Stop

Brightfame52 · Feb 24, 2025

Van said:
Utter nonsense.

What was finished was the Lamb of God providing the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2.

You have and continue to ignore 1 Peter 2:9-10 which says we were once "not a people" chosen for God's own possession. This precludes being chosen individually before our creation. Full Stop

The people Christ died for are never condemned, not ever since Christ took their sins away Jn 1:29; 2 Cor 5:19

The only ones born condemned, and will always be condemned,are those Christ did not die for, its a condemned world 1 Cor 11:32

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

1 Pet 2:9-10 is about the elect, they were always Gods people secretly by election, but its not known until they are called. And they were never condemned.

Van · Feb 24, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
The people Christ died for are never condemned, not ever since Christ took their sins away Jn 1:29; 2 Cor 5:19

The only ones born condemned, and will always be condemned,are those Christ did not die for, its a condemned world 1 Cor 11:32

32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

1 Pet 2:9-10 is about the elect, they were always Gods people secretly by election, but its not known until they are called.

Once more a Calvinist must resort to claiming scripture does not mean once we were not a people, but secretly means we were always a people.
Pay no attention to this poppycock.

Note, he also repeats his mutilation of John 1:29 rewriting it to read, Jesus took away the sin, rather than takes away this sin.
And he mutilates 2 Cor. 5:19 in the say way, suggesting it says God has reconciled the world, rather than is reconciling the world.
Final point of abject nonsense. 1 Cor. 11:32 addresses those individually elected during their lifetime, after they have obtained mercy.

Brightfame52 · Feb 24, 2025

Van said:
Once more a Calvinist must resort to claiming scripture does not mean once we were not a people, but secretly means we were always a people.
Pay no attention to this poppycock.

Note, he also repeats his mutilation of John 1:29 rewriting it to read, Jesus took away the sin, rather than takes away this sin.
And he mutilates 2 Cor. 5:19 in the say way, suggesting it says God has reconciled the world, rather than is reconciling the world.
Final point of abject nonsense. 1 Cor. 11:32 addresses those individually elected during their lifetime, after they have obtained mercy.

Those in 1 Pet 2:9-10

were always Gods elect people and never condemned. Those of the world of 2 Cor 5:19 arent condemned, not one sin is charged to them

Van · Feb 24, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
Those in 1 Pet 2:9-10

were always Gods elect people and never condemned. Those of the world of 2 Cor 5:19 arent condemned, not one sin is charged to them

Folks, the absurdity continues, if we were not condemned, why was God reconciling, present tense, us? I kid you not, the blind absurdity of the defense of Calvinism reeks.

Brightfame52 · Feb 24, 2025

Van said:
Folks, the absurdity continues, if we were not condemned, why was God reconciling, present tense, us? I kid you not, the blind absurdity of the defense of Calvinism reeks.

Because they were sinners and depraved and hated God, thats why,but they were not condemned

Van · Feb 25, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
Because they were sinners and depraved and hated God, thats why,but they were not condemned

LOL, if a person needs to be reconciled to God, they are currently condemned to their unreconciled state.

Brightfame52 · Feb 25, 2025

Van said:
LOL, if a person needs to be reconciled to God, they are currently condemned to their unreconciled state.

Thats not true, a sinner needs to be reconciled to God because they are sinners, and God is Holy, the elect by nature are unholy sinners and hate God, but they are not condemned, Christ paid that part for them, now He deals with their innate sinfulness by giving them a new nature by regeneration to call them to fellowship

Is Unbelief a sin ?

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