• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

TULIP - Which of the 5 points to subscribe to?

Which of the 5 do you believe

  • Total Depravity

  • Unconditional Election

  • Limited Atonememt

  • Irresistible Grace

  • Perseverance of the Saints

Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Endless change of subject posts, addressing my supposed bad behavior rather then the topic. Every saved person was ransomed. That is not the issue.
2 Peter 2:1 says someone bought by the Lord was heading for destruction. This is what is being denied.
Click to expand...
Everyone Jesus ransomed was saved. Ransomed is another way of saying saved, as well as redeemed. Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Everyone He gave Himself for, it redeemed them from all iniquity and purified them unto Himself. Thats the Truth
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Brightfame52 said:
Everyone Jesus ransomed was saved. Ransomed is another way of saying saved, as well as redeemed. Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Everyone He gave Himself for, it redeemed them from all iniquity and purified them unto Himself. Thats the Truth
Click to expand...
This is all they have. Ignore 2 Peter 2:1, and make false claims. It would be laughable if it weren't so sad.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Van said:
This is all they have. Ignore 2 Peter 2:1, and make false claims. It would be laughable if it weren't so sad.
Click to expand...
Everyone Jesus ransomed was saved. Ransomed is another way of saying saved, as well as redeemed. Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Everyone He gave Himself for, it redeemed them from all iniquity and purified them unto Himself. Thats the Truth

Im not ignoring it, but I know what it doesnt teach. Because the ones Christ died for and redeemed with His Blood, they are redeemed from, out of all iniquity and purified. Titus 2:14

Peter also in 1 Peter taught it 1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

They were redeemed from, or out of false vain traditional religion by the blood of Christ.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Brightfame52 said:
Everyone Jesus ransomed was saved. Ransomed is another way of saying saved, as well as redeemed. Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Everyone He gave Himself for, it redeemed them from all iniquity and purified them unto Himself. Thats the Truth

Im not ignoring it, but I know what it doesnt teach. Because the ones Christ died for and redeemed with His Blood, they are redeemed from, out of all iniquity and purified. Titus 2:14

Peter also in 1 Peter taught it 1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

They were redeemed from, or out of false vain traditional religion by the blood of Christ.
Click to expand...
Sheer nonsense, ignoring reality and biblical truth. Everyone Christ died for was ransomed, but not redeemed. You would think these folks could at-least acknowledge a modicum of truth. Everyone redeemed had been ransomed. Such a simple concept...

Did you see where even the verse cited, Titus 2:14 supports biblical truth, might redeem, not did redeem. It would be laughable if it weren't so sad.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Sheer nonsense, ignoring reality and biblical truth. Everyone Christ died for was ransomed, but not redeemed. You would think these folks could at-least acknowledge a modicum of truth. Everyone redeemed had been ransomed. Such a simple concept...

Did you see where even the verse cited, Titus 2:14 supports biblical truth, might redeem, not did redeem. It would be laughable if it weren't so sad.
Click to expand...
Those who Christ died for and redeemed by His Blood are saved by being redeemed by His Blood, a theme that will be broadcasted throughout eternity pal Rev 5:9-10

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Brightfame52 said:
Those who Christ died for and redeemed by His Blood are saved by being redeemed by His Blood, a theme that will be broadcasted throughout eternity pal Rev 5:9-10

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Click to expand...
Yet another off topic non-germane post hoping to flood the zone with obfuscation.

Everyone redeemed was ransomed. Not everyone ransomed has been or will be redeemed. Such a simple concept....
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Van said:
Yet another off topic non-germane post hoping to flood the zone with obfuscation.

Everyone redeemed was ransomed. Not everyone ransomed has been or will be redeemed. Such a simple concept....
Click to expand...
No its not off topic its spot on, redemption and ransom are joined at the hip. The ransom is the price paid to redeem the captive slave Jer 31 11

For the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Brightfame52 said:
No its not off topic its spot on, redemption and ransom are joined at the hip. The ransom is the price paid to redeem the captive slave Jer 31 11

For the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.
Click to expand...
More nonsense, more obfuscation, more denial of 2 Peter 2:1. This is all they have, folks!
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Van said:
More nonsense, more obfuscation, more denial of 2 Peter 2:1. This is all they have, folks!
Click to expand...
To be ransomed is to be saved, the all that are ransomed in 1 Tim 2 are all saved, and it will be testified to

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Brightfame52 said:
To be ransomed is to be saved, the all that are ransomed in 1 Tim 2 are all saved, and it will be testified to

6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.
Click to expand...
The guy heading for swift destruction (2 Peter 2:1) had been ransomed, as Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, 1 Timothy 2:6.

Ask yourselves, how many verses does false doctrine require to be tossed into the library bond-fire? Answer, all of them. Christ bought the person heading for swift destruction? Into the bond-fire. Christ dying for all? Into the bond-fire. Paul speaking to unregenerates using spiritual milk? Into the bond-fire. God choosing folks for salvation through faith in the truth? Into the bond-fire. On and on folks, verse after verse.
 
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Van said:
The guy heading for swift destruction (2 Peter 2:1) had been ransomed, as Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all, 1 Timothy 2:6.

Ask yourselves, how many verses does false doctrine require to be tossed into the library bond-fire? Answer, all of them. Christ bought the person heading for swift destruction? Into the bond-fire. Christ dying for all? Into the bond-fire. Paul speaking to unregenerates using spiritual milk? Into the bond-fire. God choosing folks for salvation through faith in the truth? Into the bond-fire. On and on folks, verse after verse.
Click to expand...
You have yet to prove that 2 Pet 2:1 is about someone redeemed by the blood of Christ. Everyone redeemed by the blood it saved them. Rev 5:9-10

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1 Tim 2:6 is only all of many and they were saved. Cp Matt 20:28

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Like I showed you that the ransomed are saved Job 33 24

Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom.

Isa 35

And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

Everlasting joy is eternal salvation

Jer 31 11

For the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.

You dont have a clue about God friend and His Ransom power.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Brightfame52 said:
You have yet to prove that 2 Pet 2:1 is about someone redeemed by the blood of Christ. Everyone redeemed by the blood it saved them. Rev 5:9-10

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1 Tim 2:6 is only all of many and they were saved. Cp Matt 20:28

28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Like I showed you that the ransomed are saved Job 33 24

Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom.

Isa 35

And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.

Everlasting joy is eternal salvation

Jer 31 11

For the Lord hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.

You dont have a clue about God friend and His Ransom power.
Click to expand...
1) Ever notice those pushing false doctrine do not see a need to prove their view is valid, but boy do they want proof of other views

2) The idiom comparing the "many" to the "one" refers to everyone except the one, thus everyone else.

3) Of course the saved have been ransomed under the New Covenant. Scripture says Christ ransomed everybody, those to be saved and those never to be saved.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I am a one point Calvinist, I voted the the "P" because I am in the once saved, always saved camp.

I am a quasi two point Arminian, in that I believe Christ died for all mankind, and I believe God elects individuals based on crediting their faith as righteousness.

And I am a different breed, in that I believe the lost are able to understand spiritual milk without first being "enabled" by some sort of restorative grace. Also, I do not believe the election of Ephesians 1:4 was individual, but believe it was corporate followed by our individual election during our lifetime based on crediting our faith as righteousness.

Finally, I believe the TULI of the TULIP can easily and obviously be shown to be false doctrines.

1) I believe Christ died as a ransom for all, those to be saved and those never to be saved, 2 Peter 2:1.
2) I believe God chooses individuals for salvation based on crediting their faith in the truth as righteousness? Romans 4
3) I believe the lost can understand spiritual milk but not spiritual solid food. 1 Corinthians 3:1-3
4) I believe the lost do not need to be supernaturally altered by some sort of enabling grace before they can seek God and trust in Christ. John 3:16, 2 Thessalonians 2:13


Report
 
Last edited:
B

Brightfame52

Well-Known Member
Van said:
1) Ever notice those pushing false doctrine do not see a need to prove their view is valid, but boy do they want proof of other views

2) The idiom comparing the "many" to the "one" refers to everyone except the one, thus everyone else.

3) Of course the saved have been ransomed under the New Covenant. Scripture says Christ ransomed everybody, those to be saved and those never to be saved.
Click to expand...
People run and get 2 Pet 2:1 to show that Christ redeemed lost people with His Blood, but the scripture doesnt say that. So explain why you use that scripture to believe a lie.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Brightfame52 said:
People run and get 2 Pet 2:1 to show that Christ redeemed lost people with His Blood, but the scripture doesnt say that. So explain why you use that scripture to believe a lie.
Click to expand...
Note the obvious misrepresentation of the biblical doctrine? Does 2 Peter 2:1 show Christ redeemed lost people? Nope, but that is the mischaracterization. So we do not spend time discussing the actual biblical doctrine, but waste time addressing efforts to derail discussion. This is all they have, folks!

The person heading for destruction had been "bought" by Christ. This refers to Christ dying as a ransom for all, those to be saved, and those never to be saved. Such a simply concept.
 
E

Eternally Grateful

Active Member
Van said:
The doctrine is also know as: Preservation of the Saints.
Click to expand...
that I may be able to say ok.

But still

I would rather just stick to the word. a 1 point calvinist is not a calvinist. unless you agree with all 5 points. Your technically not a calvinst.

I think this is why there is so much confusion.

In the end, I prefer to say I am a believer and this is what I believe
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Eternally Grateful said:
that I may be able to say ok.

But still

I would rather just stick to the word. a 1 point calvinist is not a calvinist. unless you agree with all 5 points. Your technically not a calvinst.

I think this is why there is so much confusion.

In the end, I prefer to say I am a believer and this is what I believe
Click to expand...
Yes, I am not a Calvinist, I am a non-Calvinist.

Yes, to clearly state the doctrines you believe are biblical is critical. Note all those posts addressing this or that doctrine which is not believed. That does not move the football.

1) "T" = Total spiritual inability. False doctrine. Actual biblical Doctrine = Limited Spiritual Ability, the lost are able to understand Spiritual Milk
2) "U" = Unconditional Election. False doctrine. Actual biblical Doctrine = Conditional Individual Election based on God crediting the person's faith as righteousness.
3) "L" = Limited Atonement. False doctrine. Actual biblical Doctrine = Christ died for all humanity, those to be saved and those never to be saved, providing the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity.
4) "I" = Irresistible Grace. False doctrine. Actual biblical Doctrine = The lost do not need to be supernaturally "enabled" in order to seek God and trust in Christ.
5) "P" = Preservation of the Saints. Some versions of this doctrine are false. Once born anew, we are kept by the power of God, and thus will endure to the end. Endurance to the end proves salvation, rather than provides salvation.
 
Last edited:
E

Eternally Grateful

Active Member
Van said:
Yes, I am not a Calvinist, I am a non-Calvinist.

Yes, to clearly state the doctrines you believe are biblical is critical. Note all those posts addressing this or that doctrine which is not believed. That does not move the football.
Click to expand...
and sadly.. all the posts of one saying the other believes this or that, in which it is clearly seen, they do not believe that at all..
 
  • Like
Reactions: Van
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top