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Failure to Grasp the Doctrine of Union with Christ, leads to many Error's

Z

Zaatar71

Active Member
Charlie24 said:
We can try that if you like. It's always the non-calvinists that give explanation whereas the Calvinists will say, "that's the sovereignty of God, He can do whatever He desires.

The main problem is our definition of God's sovereignty. That is what we should be discussing.
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Do you agree with these biblical definitions;

Dan.4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Psa.115:2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

Isa.46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Zaatar71 said:
Yes,, when a person turns from revealed truth, they turn to darkness and ideas that are alienated from the life of God. yes, they have to invent or make up a theological idol...they have no other choice.
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Which is just what augustine did in the 4th century and calvin and calvinist's have carried forward to today.
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Zaatar71 said:
Do you agree with these biblical definitions;

Dan.4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Psa.115:2 Wherefore should the heathen say, Where is now their God?

3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

Isa.46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
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Of Course I do, but I believe them in the context in which they are written.

Pick one out and let's discuss it! Not going through all of them.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Zaatar71 said:
I am not responding to these foolish Augustine posts. Deal with scripture, or keep these foolish thoughts to yourself.
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They are not foolish Z. Why do you follow a philosophy that started in the 4th century?

The fact you will not even take the time say much about you. It seems you are afraid of the truth as it would shatter your calvinst world.
 
Z

Zaatar71

Active Member
Charlie24 said:
Of Course I do, but I believe them in the context in which they are written.

Pick one out and let's discuss it! Not going through all of them.
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All three have something in common...Look at dan4 for example;
Dan.4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

He is completely in control of whatsoever comes to pass, In heaven or on earth. Do you agree? God's will is done according to His good pleasure.
 
Z

Zaatar71

Active Member
Silverhair said:
They are not foolish Z. Why do you follow a philosophy that started in the 4th century?

The fact you will not even take the time say much about you. It seems you are afraid of the truth as it would shatter your calvinst world.
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My doctrine is fully taught in the NT. You cannot address the truth so you look to fables instead, I understand.
 
Z

Zaatar71

Active Member
Some Rando said:
Another option:
I agree with the Biblical teaching.
I do not equate Zaatar's teaching with Scripture.

You are correct, however, I chose not to include the fourth normal Calvinist accusation:
If you don't agree with Zaatar you must therefore be:
1.) ignorant
2.) stupid
3.) wicked
4.) any combination of the above

I've heard it for ages, again, if I had a nickel....
My guess is, one day, you will grow out of it. But, it often takes years for Calvinists to cease simply calling those who disagree with them evil.
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If you do not agree with scripture ,it is God you do not agree with ,my friend, not me. You cannot defend your position biblically ,so you appeal to the bad Calvinist boogeyman excuse to avoid real interaction, I get it.
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Zaatar71 said:
All three have something in common...Look at dan4 for example;
Dan.4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

He is completely in control of whatsoever comes to pass, In heaven or on earth. Do you agree? God's will is done according to His good pleasure.
Click to expand...

Just hear me out and see if you get it.

In Dan. 4:35 Nebuchadnezzar is speaking of what God did to show him that he may be the greatest of all kings on the earth, but he is not above the Lord God. God took his kingdom from him and then gave it back, nothing could stop God from doing this.

This context has nothing to do with predestination, but you want to make it to mean that.

You can't do that, Z. Each one of the verses you have quoted have their own context in which God does His good pleasure.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Zaatar71 said:
My doctrine is fully taught in the NT. You cannot address the truth so you look to fables instead, I understand.
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So you are now calling history fables, that is rich coming from you.

Your doctrine is formed by twisting the word of God and changing the meaning of words to suit your preconceived ideas.
 
Silverhair

Silverhair

Well-Known Member
Zaatar71 said:
If you do not agree with scripture ,it is God you do not agree with ,my friend, not me. You cannot defend your position biblically ,so you appeal to the bad Calvinist boogeyman excuse to avoid real interaction, I get it.
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You continue to deny history and hold to a philosophy from the 4th century so who is not agreeing with the word of God?
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
Just hear me out and see if you get it.

In Dan. 4:35 Nebuchadnezzar is speaking of what God did to show him that he may be the greatest of all kings on the earth, but he is not above the Lord God. God took his kingdom from him and then gave it back, nothing could stop God from doing this.

This context has nothing to do with predestination, but you want to make it to mean that.

You can't do that, Z. Each one of the verses you have quoted have their own context in which God does His good pleasure.
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Let's go to the verse that concerns predestination and according to His good pleasure.

Eph. 1:5

"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"

You will say that God's sovereignty has chosen who will be saved according to His good pleasure.

I will say it has nothing to do with God choosing who will be saved, but how man will be saved.

God predestined before the foundation of the world that man would be adopted a certain way, only one way, through Jesus Christs' sacrifice for our sins, according to his good pleasure.
 
C

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
Let's go to the verse that concerns predestination and according to His good pleasure.

Eph. 1:5

"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"

You will say that God's sovereignty has chosen who will be saved according to His good pleasure.

I will say it has nothing to do with God choosing who will be saved, but how man will be saved.

God predestined before the foundation of the world that man would be adopted a certain way, only one way, through Jesus Christs' sacrifice for our sins, according to his good pleasure.
Click to expand...

Have you put forth any effort whatsoever to understand what I've said in the above post?
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Failure to Grasp the Doctrine of Union with Christ, leads to many Error's.

It is simple to grasp.

1 John 5:12, He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
 
Z

Zaatar71

Active Member
Charlie24 said:
Have you put forth any effort whatsoever to understand what I've said in the above post?
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Your post is not clear at all. What do you mean when you say this;
I will say it has nothing to do with God choosing who will be saved, but how man will be saved.

God predestined before the foundation of the world that man would be adopted a certain way, only one way, through Jesus Christs' sacrifice for our sins, according to his good pleasure.
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Where does the text say anything about being "adopted in a certain way"
Where does the text say that?
What is that certain way?
Where does it say...how man will be saved?
 
S

Some Rando

Member
Zaatar71 said:
If you do not agree with scripture ,it is God you do not agree with ,my friend, not me.
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I agree with Scripture.
I do not agree with you.

You are in no sense a friend inasmuch as you have done nothing but suggest that disagreement with you makes someone either:
1.) Stupid
2.) Ignorant
3.) Wicked
4.) any combination of the above

If and until you speak to fellow brothers in Christ with decency and respect, there is no sense in calling them "friend". It simply sounds nasty and juvenile.
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Charlie24 said:
Let's go to the verse that concerns predestination and according to His good pleasure.

Eph. 1:5

"Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"

You will say that God's sovereignty has chosen who will be saved according to His good pleasure.

I will say it has nothing to do with God choosing who will be saved, but how man will be saved.

God predestined before the foundation of the world that man would be adopted a certain way, only one way, through Jesus Christs' sacrifice for our sins, according to his good pleasure.
Click to expand...
Have to tie that into John chapter 1 and Romans 8 though
 
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