Drinking Alcohol

Let me try to help you "christian drinkers" which is a misnomer. That is kinda like a "christian whoremonger". Let's play "word association". Beer, wine, immorality, liquor, vomiting, alcoholic, broken homes, drugs, DUI, good Christian witness. Now what's wrong with this picture?

 

Thanks for trying to explain this, however like the other posters have pointed out, these statements are wrong.

How can you say it was ok to have wine in the old days but not now? How can you claim that the wine of old days is different than the wine of today?

Can you offer any proof of these differences. In one of the many many other threads about drinking, someone offered this same reason, and was explained in great detail how it was wrong.

So, why, and where do you get your information? Is it more accurate than the OP in the other thread?


As far as people having to sit there all day to get drunk, ever think that because they drank it all the time, they body got acclimated to it?

Ever been to France? Ever seen how much wine/Alcohol they drink? Do you see people staggering around after lunch time there?

No. The reason, would be the same in modern day and older days. The more you drink, the more your body gets acclimated to it.

Look at everything in context, and in nature.. The more you do something, the more acclimated you become.

Jamie

 

Other than it looks like you broad stroked it when trying to paint this picture...


You can group in number of things together and make it seem like their bad.

How about Coffee? Do you guys drink coffe?

How about the Internet? Do you guys use the internet?

How about TV? Do you guy watch TV?

How about gossip? Do you guys gossip?

How about lack of compassion? DO you guys ever show lack of compassion?


You see, this list can go on and on.. You have to take everything in moderation. When you over do it, it can become a sin.

Drinking is not over doing it. Being Drunk is.

Plain and simple.


Jamie

 

"Drinking is not over doing it." No JamieinNH, drinking alcoholic beverages according to Scripture is sin, plain and simple. It doesn't say any thing in the Bible about getting used to it, or what country it's in, it just says it's sin.

 

You are correct, at least in this point. Drinking is NOT over doing it... Being DRUNK is over doing it. There is a difference.

No, the passages you have shown so far show that being in love of wine is a sin, or waking early in the morning and drinking to the end of day is a sin. But you have not shown me a verse that says plain and simple as you put it, that drinking a drink is a sin.

This comment wasn't directed at you. This comment follows SFiC's statement about wine being different today than it was in the older days.

Jamie

 

AMEN Shiloh--All that is happening here are "Christians" trying to "justify" their drinking. They have already predetermined that it is okay to drink in "moderation" (the word moderation is a misnomer also). All you hear is: "The Bible doesn't say drinking is a sin, but drunkenness is". Then various scripture verses are used to back that up--even to the point that Jesus made "fermented" wine--which is ridiculous--but I won't get into that one now. For a Christian to drink beverage alcohol breaks down their witness. The Bible says "look not" in Proverbs 23:31. The verse in 1 Thess. 5 comes to mind here:

Abstain from all appearance of evil. (1 Thessalonians 5:22)

Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not WISE. (Proverbs 20:1) (Emphasis mine)

 

Linda64, not to get off the subject, but you said it is ridiculous regarding the point that Jesus made "fermented" wine. Would you go into that now?

 

That is a ridiculous, untrue, and pharasaical statement. It is scripturally clear that simple consumption of alcohol is permitted. It is likewise scripturally clear that drunkenness is forbidden. It is also clear that you appear to lack the ability to discern between the two.

You cannot make a scriptural case for claiming that simple consumption of alcohol is a sin, or in any way evil, unrighteous, or inappropriate.

By your association, you will have us believe that sex is wrong. Sorry, only fornication is wrong, but sex, in and of itself, is not. Likewise, only drunkenness is wrong, but simply consuming alcohol is not.

Of course you don't want to get into it, because your argument would fal apart like a wet newspaper. At the wedding feast, Jesus made the best wine. unfermented wine is not the best wine, it is as cheap as bitter wine.

None of the scriptures you cite support the idea that all consumption of alcohol is a poor witness. You life verses from their context to suit your manmade agenda. That is called perverting scripture.

 

Phillip:

The reason I didn't want to get into the "Jesus turned the water into "fermented" wine" at this time is because that subject has been covered in other threads, plus I did not want to drag out the original topic of my post to include that.

When I have more time, I would like to get into that subject, but right now, I don't have the time to do so. I have found that once the topic is started, it turns into a heated debate for the reason that everybody has a "predetermined" answer and nothing you say will change their mind--except the Lord changing their heart.

 

I am currently drinking a glass of red wine every day to aid in lowering my cholesterol. I'm certainly glad God provided us with such means for staying in good health--hopefully by using such means I won't have to start taking medication.

 

Phillip:

The reason I didn't want to get into the "Jesus turned the water into "fermented" wine" at this time is because that subject has been covered in other threads, plus I did not want to drag out the original topic of my post to include that.

When I have more time, I would like to get into that subject, but right now, I don't have the time to do so. I have found that once the topic is started, it turns into a heated debate for the reason that everybody has a "predetermined" answer and nothing you say will change their mind--except the Lord changing their heart. </font>[/QUOTE]The reason you don't want to get into it is because you are wrong. The best wine is the wine found in Isaiah 25:6, period. This is the same wine the Lord of Hosts will serve us some day (His words). Jesus made the BEST wine (well aged + fermented = ALCOHOLIC). Read Isaih 25:6 and try to twist it to mean non alcoholic. You can't. I will be interested to see what you, standingfirm and shiloh will be doing at this feast the Lord will provide for us...saying to the Lord "you can't serve that...your Word says it's sin...there are no such things as 'christian drinkers'...!"

 

You people didn't answer my question. What is wrong with this picture? Beer, wine, immorality, liquor, vomiting, alcoholic, broken homes, drugs, DUI, good Christian witness.
You people are looking for one verse in the Bible that tells us that, drinking wine is sin. Or maybe you need a certain brand of wine mentioned? The Bible tells us to "love not the world", we are "new creatures, old things are passed away" we are not to be "conformed to this world" and on and on we could go. Even if the Bible wouldn't tell us that drinking is wrong, and it does, what do you do about association? On TV when a man is going to seduce a woman does he use wine or a Bible? How about an honest answer to my question.

 

Scripture clearly says that wine is a blessing from God:

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Exd 29:40 And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering.

Num 6:20 And the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the LORD: this is holy for the priest, with the wave breast and heave shoulder: and after that the Nazarite may drink wine.

Deut 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

Jdg 19:18-19 And he said unto him, We are passing from Bethlehemjudah toward the side of mount Ephraim; from thence am I: and I went to Bethlehemjudah, but I am now going to the house of the LORD; and there is no man that receiveth me to house. [19] Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing.

1 Sam 16:20 And Jesse took an ass laden with bread, and a bottle of wine, and a kid, and sent them by David his son unto Saul.

Psa 104:14-15 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth; [15] And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.

Prov 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Ecc 9:7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.

Sgs 2:4 He brought me to the banqueting (03196) house, and his banner over me was love.

Sgs 5:1 I am come into my garden, my sister, my spouse: I have gathered my myrrh with my spice; I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey; I have drunk my wine with my milk: eat, O friends; drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved.

Sgs 8:2 I would lead thee, and bring thee into my mother's house, who would instruct me: I would cause thee to drink of spiced wine of the juice of my pomegranate.

Isa 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Jer 35:2 Go unto the house of the Rechabites, and speak unto them, and bring them into the house of the LORD, into one of the chambers, and give them wine to drink.

Also see:
- Isa 25:6 says the LORD himself will give a feast that includes wine.
- In Gen 14, the priest Melchizedek (a 'type' of Christ according to the NT) gave Moses bread and wine.
- Deut 14 says if the Israelites differentiate between clean and unclean animals (v2-31), tithe (v22) and live obediently (v23), they may spend their money on livestock, wine and strong drink, and eat and drink and rejoice before the LORD.
- Psalm 104:14-15 says God causes grass to grow for cattle, causes plants to grow for man, and that God gives man wine to make man's heart glad, and oil for his face, and bread to sustain him.
- Ecc 9:7 says the righteous can "Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works."
- Judges 9:13 says wine brings cheer to both man *and God*.
- Isa 55:1 compares God's mercy to free water, milk and wine.
- 1 Chr 12:40 and 2 Chr 31:5 includes wine in the list of abundance and joyful things for Israel
- Amos 9:13-15 prophesies about restoring Israel, when then can rebuild their cities and plant vineyards and drink wine.
- Deut 28 talks about God removing good things because of disobedience. The list of good things includes wine (v39)
- Song of Songs 5:1 talks of drinking wine as a celebration of love.
- Gen 27:28 speaks a blessing from God of dew from heaven, fatness from the earth, and an abundance of grain and wine.
- Deut 7:13 speaks of a blessing from God of children, grain and wine.
- Deut 11:14 speaks of a blessing from God of grain and wine and oil.
- Prov 3:9-10 says if we give to God, he will give to us, overflowing us with grain and wine.

However, like other blessings from God (food, money, sex, positions of authority, etc.) it can be misused and abused, and is sinful when used beyond what God intended it for.

 

Same thing with this picture: sex, lust, porn, disease, addiction, broken homes, prostitution, fornication, good Christian witness.

Just because sex can be abused and great evil can happen because of it does not mean sex itself is wrong.

Same thing with this picture: food, gluttony, boulimia, vomitting, obesity, starvation, good Christian witness.

Just because food can be abused and great evil can happen because of it does not mean food itself is wrong.

Same thing with this picture: money, gambling, love of money, theft, cheating on taxes, bribery, broken homes, good Christian witness.

Just because money can be abused and great evil can happen because of it does not mean money itself is wrong.

 

Then answer my question, let's try this word association: sex, rape, child molestation, sexually transmitted diseases.

My entire point is that your word-association makes little sense. I can throw all sorts of words together to get associations that I want. If I look at the first word by itself "sex", it is a WONDERFUL thing that God has given to us to share between our spouses, yet I can make sex look awfully ugly by simply listing the bad points.

That is all you have done with wine.

 

Phillip:

The reason I didn't want to get into the "Jesus turned the water into "fermented" wine" at this time is because that subject has been covered in other threads, plus I did not want to drag out the original topic of my post to include that.

When I have more time, I would like to get into that subject, but right now, I don't have the time to do so. I have found that once the topic is started, it turns into a heated debate for the reason that everybody has a "predetermined" answer and nothing you say will change their mind--except the Lord changing their heart. </font>[/QUOTE]The reason you don't want to get into it is because you are wrong. The best wine is the wine found in Isaiah 25:6, period. This is the same wine the Lord of Hosts will serve us some day (His words). Jesus made the BEST wine (well aged + fermented = ALCOHOLIC). Read Isaih 25:6 and try to twist it to mean non alcoholic. You can't. I will be interested to see what you, standingfirm and shiloh will be doing at this feast the Lord will provide for us...saying to the Lord "you can't serve that...your Word says it's sin...there are no such things as 'christian drinkers'...!" </font>[/QUOTE]Exactly, that is why I brought it up.

There would be no need for the statement that the man hosting the party would save the best wine for last after everybody is drunk when he would normally be serving the cheap wine. Apparently, the wine Jesus made was very high-quality, aged and ALCOHOLIC. I heard a preacher just last week saying that the wine that was used in the New Testament at the Lord's supper was actually Greek for "grape juice" and not "wine".

 

Where does it say that it's allow during that time, but no other time? So you agree it's allowed in moderation, or has that rule changed from in moderation to none now-a-days?

Ah, now we come to the quick.. It's allowed but only at festivals. So it's ok to drink wine at a wedding? How about a birthday party? Reunion?

I see now we had it ALL Wrong.. We can drink, but just at festivals.. Is this right? If so, can you tell me where it states that drinking is just for festivals and no other time.


Thanks!
Jamie

 

Then various scripture verses are used to back that up--even to the point that Jesus made "fermented" wine--which is ridiculous--but I won't get into that one now.

How is that ridiculous?

Jesus made and drank alcoholic wine. That was about all you could drink back then if you didn't want E. coli or brucellosis or something else nasty like that. A small amount of alcohol sterilized the drink and made it safe to drink and to keep. They even called Jesus as "drunkard" which means that he must have drunk some wine (although He certainly did not ever drink to excess).

I agree completely that drinking is bad witness. And we should be willing to sacrifice what we perceive (for whatever reason) as Christian liberty for the sake of witness.

But we must also be careful not to twist scripture (like saying that Jesus make non-alcoholic wine) because that is also a bad witness, showing the world that supporting our preconceived notions is more important than approaching the Bible honestly.

 

...and I give you one verse that says drinking wine CAN'T BE SIN, but you continue to ignore it the same way the pharisees ignored Jesus. Isaiah 25:6 proves that drinking is not sin if in fact HE PROVIDES IT!
Isa 25:6 (HCSB) The LORD of Hosts will prepare a feast for all the peoples on this mountain-- a feast of aged wine , choice meat, finely aged wine .

 

I'm looking for the Word as a whole telling us that drinking is a sin. The Word as a whole does not.