Drinking Alcohol

Linda, wine and strong drink is like anything else; when used in moderation it is not dangerous. In fact, it is healthy.

Just because Jesus refused wine on the cross, has nothing to do with us today.

You still cannot explain away that Jesus made GOOD wine after the party attendees were drunk. I doubt seriously that Jesus was drunk, but that did not stop him from making the wine.

 

Alcott, you sound like a broken record

 

"In the air there's a feel'-- there's a feel'-- there's a feel'--............."

Your remark reminds of me of an old Christmas album we had that always got stuck there in "Silver Bells."

 

The heart is hard and will not seek
The truth behind the words I speak
For Hebrew was posted two days ago
To prove you advocate a drink of woe
The Hebrew word for Look said he
That was granted wisdom liberally
was Ra'ah which meant we're not to touch
That evil drink that deceives so much

 

StandingfirminChrist I like your rhyme
The problem however is the time,
For Godliness here is but a form
God's power to them is what they scorn,
Their children have paid the awful price
Of their love of booze and toss of dice,
Paul told Timothy this day would arrive
When men did that pleasing to their eyes,
To this board nothing one can't do
Except quote Scripture from the KJV that's taboo,
Although learned they know not the truth
To them the Bible they do spoof,
I'm real glad that in these posts
There are a few unlike the most,
That daily closer to God you come
While others to the world succumb,
Peculiar to the world we are told
To be like Christ should be our goal,
So let these "Christians" drink their beer
For I am getting out of here,
In Perryville Maryland is where I'll be
Preaching and singing with my family,
When the new year comes with all it's heft
We will be praying with no booze on our breath.

 

When Shiloh and company start the mockery, the game is revealed. They have nothing else left. I am then free to take the warning from Psalm 1 that I am not to 'sit in the seat' of mockers, but rather concentrate on the law of the Lord.

But there is something that needs to be said. I see nowhere in the Bible where even drunkenness can keep you out of heaven (although drunkenness is very wrong and I am not trying in the least to defend it). But there is something which is warned about much more strongly which will exclude you from heaven -- sorcery. And the word that is used indicates drug use.

All drug dependency and use starts with that first pill, be it an aspirin or a Tylenol...

So, to be on the safe side, I strongly recommend that Shiloh and company forever refrain from taking any pain medication for any reason, as that alters the consciousness slightly. Anesthesia for any surgeries is completely out. Tranquilizers, sedatives, sleeping pills for any reason at all, including the death of a loved one or trying to sleep on a fourteen hour plane flight -- no way. Gone. No muscle relaxers for sure -- they are much stronger than wine and do the same thing chemically but in more unknown ways.

If the Bible is warning about anything, the warnings about drugs are far more strongly made than the warnings about alcohol, which is actually recommended in a number of instances.

Take your diabetes medication and your vitamin pills -- but do not dare to take any medication at all which alters any way in which your nerves operate, for these are ALL involved in the beginnings of sorcery. It's how they got started.

There is no mockery in that post. I am simply trying to show where the logic leads regarding alcohol, which is not condemned nearly as strongly as sorcery in the Bible.

 

Amen, Dunamis!

I like that verse.</font>[/QUOTE]Except that you guys are perverting the verse, and obviously don't know your scripture. The verse says "Be not DRUNK with wine ... but be filled with the Holy Spirit". You guys are twisting scripture and adding to it to make it read "be not filled with wine...". Again, the scripture your folks point to for a claim that alcohol consumption is wrong actually says that drunkenness,, not simple consumption, is wrong.

Scripture says no such thing.

 

Guess what Helen,

Alcohol is a drug. It is a depressant. It alters the mind. So I guess if people use it, they are guilty of sorcery.

 

Your words aren't true, in fact, they lie
You twist the Word, I don't know why

Your post when placed in whole context
refutes your claim in scripture text.

The word from its prime context lifted
Your own agenda hence was sifted.

You claim that drinking is a sin
Yet scripture lacks that claim therein

In closing nothing is so clear
as legalist contrivance here.
The Word consumption does condone
While drunkenness it bans alone.
For one to say it bans the sip
Results from a Word-twisting trip.

 

I sure hope you don't drink anything with caffiene or sugar.

 

Amen - caffeine is a drug.

No doctor in the world would refute that.

We could use the exact same arguments against coffee.

I am a total non-user of alcohol. I have not had a drink since 1976. I think there are plenty of principles in the word of God suggesting such a view.

Still, the arguments of some here will not hold water unless we apply them to all mind altering drugs, including caffeine.

 

"When Shiloh and company start the mockery, the game is revealed. They have nothing else left."
Lady I am not who is mocking Scripture. You people condone gambling, drinking, smoking and who knows what else. Is there anything in the Bible that you people think is wrong for a Christian to do? The only thing you people think is wrong is the KJV. I have given you people many verses of Scripture and you made a mockery out of them all. Believe you lady I am not making a mockery out of this issue. Dr. Harold Sightler had a daughter killed by a man who was drinking. My best friends father after an argument with the mother called the kids into the kitchen and then took out a knife and cut his throat although he was drinking he wasn't drunk. One of the fellows that worked for my father killed his best friend with a shot to the neck with a 12 ga. shotgun during an argument. You see Helen I have dealt with alcohol problems for many years. NO CHRISTIAN can be an effective witness for the Lord Jesus while drinking alcohol! Now, if you want to continue to drink and damn your kids soul to hell, you will answer for it. Please don't think for a New York second that I am making a mockery of this filthy stuff. God tells us to separate from it, Num.6:3, not to look on it, Prov.23:31 and so on. There are many more but you will only make a mockery of all of them. You tell us we shouldn't use aspirin or salt? Show me in the Bible where that is, ICor.6:10? This is my last post to you winebibbers. There is no reasoning with drinking babblers Prov.23:29-31. In another place on this board someone asked the question, "what is the greatest enemy to the church" or something along that line. As a Fundamental Independent Baptist Pastor I'll answer the question. [personal attack snipped] You act like the world, look like the world, drink like the world..... The Bible is crystal clear on this, Matt.7:21-23. Our greatest ministry today is IN THE CHURCH! Trying to preach conviction and repentance into the heart of people that "think" they are saved. I know from experience you will mock this but my desire is that you will take this in the spirit in which is was given, as a warning before it is eternally too late Phil.4:17.

Moderator note: We do not permit the questioning of others salvation on this forum.

[ December 30, 2005, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

&lt;-- Off Topic --&gt;

While I found all the rhymes nice, some people shouldn't cut and paste rhymes from other sites, that other users have used. It's not nice to post something as your ideas and not give credit where credit is due.
&lt;-- Back On topic --&gt;

Jamie

 

Shiloh, you really want people to take what you are saying seriously when you post these kind of ignorant replies? Do you even know what "damns people to hell"? How salvation is accomplished? From your posts, I am not so sure you do. If you don't, please PM me and I would be more than happy to share it with you.

For the sake of your congregation, it might be wise to resign. If you believe I have a beer my son will go to hell, you have no business preaching to anybody let alone be a pastor!

 

Shiloh, I personally consider smoking a horror and gambling to go against loving one's neighbor as oneself.

I have a son-in-law who was the victim of a drunk driver and is now a paraplegic in a wheelchair. I used to work in a long-term hospital which was filled with alcoholics. I am VERY aware of the dangers and damage of overdrinking.

I taught school for almost thirty years. By ten on any given morning I could tell you which kids had either not had breakfast or had had primarily sugar in one form or another for breakfast. They were asleep. Sugar highs and lows also act like drugs.

I have had a series of major surgeries and three times in my life have had to go through morphine withdrawal. That is hell on earth. I know what drugs can do -- even legal drugs under controlled circumstances.

And so I am extremely careful about the medications I take. I am extremely careful about the foods I eat. I don't now and have never smoked. As Johnv knows full well, I am totally against gambling.

SO, your personal attack aside, which you had no right to make, I can see that it is the abuse of just about anything which is wrong. But wine is wine in the Bible, and recommended in some instances and simply used in others, even by our Lord Himself.

As He said Himself: "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' [note: if John was not drinking any liquids at all, he would be dead long before that time! The reference is clearly to drinking wine, especially in reference to what follows.] The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."

Now, of course John was eating and drinking SOMETHING to stay alive! So that was not the point. The point was WHAT he was eating and drinking. What Christ was eating and drinking were the standard fare of the day, and that included wine, or He could not have been accused even by the most absurd stretch of the imagination of being a drunkard or wine-bibber! In the same way, had He not been willing to attend feasts, such as the marriage at Cana, then they could not have accused Him of being a glutton! Both of these accusations, false though they were in their implications, were based on the fact that our Lord was eating and drinking in a manner normal to the time. That VERY much included fermented wine.

There is strong indication that there is a genetic component to alcoholism for many. Where this is known or suspected it is very wise to abstain altogether. I would certainly agree about that. However where there is not a problem with that or with the escapism or 'machoism' or whatever with having too much, wine is one of the safest medications there is, as well as being a perfectly acceptable beverage to have in small amounts with food.

Do I act like the world? My family calls me the religious nut -- I come from a non-Christian family. So I guess I don't act like THEIR world, anyway! Our neighbors are very aware that we are not the ones to invite to cocktail parties, so they seem to be making the distinction, although we are all still quite friendly.

Do I look like the world? The only picture you have seen of me is, I think, this one. It was taken five years ago on the day I married Barry. I'm sorry if that seems worldly to you. My habit is to dress quite modestly, and I don't think that is terribly 'worldly'.

Do I drink like the world? Well, the last glass of wine I had was at least two months ago...and I never have more than 3 or 4 ounces at a time. If you think that is drinking like the world, you have got some serious looking to do!

And I know I am saved. I know my Lord and I know the Holy Spirit dwells within me. I know that my influence on others has encouraged them to become more sure in their faith and has led some to the faith in Christ which saves. I know God is working in me and through me to impact the world around me. I have watched Him do it and am in awe of His grace and power.

You know from experience I will mock you? I have not mocked you. I apologize if anything I have said comes across that way. However you have called me a drinking babbler and implied many other rather nasty things about me. As you have judged, you will be judged. Be careful, my friend.

 

My wife can attest that every single poem I posted in these threads were penned by my own hand. God has given me a talent to write poetry and songs.

Many of my songs and poetry can be found on www.poetry.com

 

When I was growing up I smoked alot of dope. After I got older I drank a whole bunch of alcohol. The only reason I quit smoking is because the Marine Corps said that was a no-no. They're all bad for you, drugs more so than booze, but now I'm clean of both.

What's really bad though is to see self professed Christians tearing each other down. None of us have the right to have a "holier than thou" attitude because in the eyes of God we're all falling WAY short. Lets be lights, not bags of bitterness.

 

God bless you, wwr82 -- you've come a long way. Thank you for your post.

 

personal attacks deleted

[ December 31, 2005, 01:27 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]

 

Just because one disagrees with another scripturally is no cause to attack one's character or slander him as you have done, Alcott. It is very unchristlike. I will pray for you.