Drinking Alcohol

[Dunamis XX]

natters, during biblical times there was unmixed wine and mixed wine, I was referring to mixed [diluted] wine.

Wine stored as a liquid would ferment. Wine at that time was stored in large jugs call amphorae. The pure, unmixed wine would be drawn out of these jugs and poured into large bowls where it was mixed with water. Wine during the NT times would never be served directly from the amphora without first being mixed. Drinking unmixed wine was looked upon by Greek culture as barbaric. As a beverage, wine was always thought of as a mixed drink in Greek culture. The ratio of water might have varied, but only barbarians drank it unmixed. Patristic writings show that the early church served mixed wine.

 

[Dunamis XX]

natters,
what about a weaker Christian that observes you purchasing alcoholic beverages?

 

[natters]

Ah, then wine-drinking today and wine-drinking in Bible times are NOT totally different, just different in alcholic content.

Why did they (including the early church) drink mixed wine if it might set a wrong example as you discussed?

 

[natters]

Originally posted by Dunamis XX:
natters,
what about a weaker Christian that observes you purchasing alcoholic beverages?

I do not purchase them in the presence of weaker Christians who know I am also a Christian.

 

[Dunamis XX]

Why did they (including the early church) drink mixed wine if it might set a wrong example as you discussed?

Earlier,I wrote...In the OT as in the New, wine was used out of necessity. This was in a day and age when all they had to drink apart from wine was fruit juice, milk, and water. Due to a lack of refrigeration, even wine mixed from the syrup base, if left standing long enough, could ferment. These people had little choice in deciding what to drink.

 

[Dunamis XX]

I do not purchase them in the presence of weaker Christians who know I am also a Christian.

So you're one of those SNEEKY Christians?

 

[Dunamis XX]

I realize to those "Christians" who drink alcoholic beverages whether publicly or in their "closets," are really not concerned with the church covenant where their membership resides.

Most Baptist churches that I am aware of, have a church covenant, which states that you will abstain from the use of and the sale of alcoholic beverages. To do otherwise, would be to break the church covenant, which you made when you became a member of that particular church [whether you realized you made that covenant or not].

 

[natters]

Originally posted by Dunamis XX:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I do not purchase them in the presence of weaker Christians who know I am also a Christian.

So you're one of those SNEEKY Christians? </font>[/QUOTE]Yep. I've even been know to sneak into a doughnut shop when some of my overweight friends are not with me. I sometimes also play card games when my friend who has a gambling problem isn't looking. I'm a rebel.

 

[Dunamis XX]

I noticed

 

[natters]

Using the internet in the presence of some people who struggle with pornography could cause them to stumble. Is it sneaky to use the internet when they're not around?

 

[webdog]

Most Baptist churches that I am aware of, have a church covenant, which states that you will abstain from the use of and the sale of alcoholic beverages.

The Church covenant is to override the Bible? The Bible does not teach abstinenence.

Can you tell me why the "best" wine of the Bible is the "well aged" wine? How would this be the "best" if it were mixed with water? That's pure eisegesis.

Earlier,I wrote...In the OT as in the New, wine was used out of necessity.

This is not what God says.
God speaking: Deu 14:26 and spend the money for whatever you desire--oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.

"Whatever you desire" and "whatever you need" out of necessity are two totally separate things.

 

[Dunamis XX]

webdog,

The Church covenant is to override the Bible?

I never said a church covenant overrides the Bible...you might re-read what I said and not take it out of context. I just said that most Baptist churches have a church covenant and when a person becomes a member of that church you are agreeing to keep that particular church's covenant. You have placed yourself under that church's authority. If you fail to keep that particular church covenant, you run the risk of being disfellowshiped.

 

[Dunamis XX]

Johnv posts,

Scripture does not support your view. Jesus drank wine with every sabbath

He did? Every Sabbath? And where does Scripture support YOUR view?

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by Dunamis XX:
webdog,
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />The Church covenant is to override the Bible?

I never said a church covenant overrides the Bible...you might re-read what I said and not take it out of context. I just said that most Baptist churches have a church covenant and when a person becomes a member of that church you are agreeing to keep that particular church's covenant. You have placed yourself under that church's authority. If you fail to keep that particular church covenant, you run the risk of being disfellowshiped. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree about being under the Church's authority...that is why I would never join a legalistic church that tells God what sin is. Any Church that has guidelines that do not square with the Bible should drop those requirements and repent...Baptist's included.

 

[webdog]

Originally posted by Dunamis XX:
Johnv posts,
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Scripture does not support your view. Jesus drank wine with every sabbath

He did? Every Sabbath? And where does Scripture support YOUR view? </font>[/QUOTE]Jewish history supports this view. The jews have always used wine...never grape juice. Tradition is HUGE to jews, and this practice is one that has been handed down since the inception and not broken. My brother in law is jewish. Nothing but wine has ever been used for the Sabbath.

 

[Dunamis XX]

Any Church that has guidelines that do not square with the Bible should drop those requirements and repent...Baptist's included.

I agree.

 

[Dunamis XX]

Scripture does not support your view. Jesus drank wine with every sabbath

Jewish history supports this view. The jews have always used wine...never grape juice. Tradition is HUGE to jews, and this practice is one that has been handed down since the inception and not broken. My brother in law is jewish. Nothing but wine has ever been used for the Sabbath.

Jewish history supports this view??? And I thought you were going to quote some scripture.

Oh, by the way, this tradition, when was it's inception?

 

[Dunamis XX]

While some choose to be filled with wine, I choose to be filled with the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 5:18)

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by churchmontana:
There is no excuse to drink. We all are too familiar with the damages caused by drinking. It is worthless. To even suggest a little drink is okay is wrong, it would be wasting money and helping others get drunk by supporting the liquor companies that provide this poison.

That is a manmade view, not a biblical one. As a manmade view, I support your sovereign privilege to adhere yourself to that standard. However, when you require that same stnadard of all others as a biblical mandate, you become guilty of perverting scripture, and I will not stand by when a believer does so.

I could easily replace "the drink" with "chocolate" or "caffienated beverages", and the point would be just as valid as a matter of personal standard. However, it would not be any more biblically mandated.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Johnv:
I could easily replace "the drink" with "chocolate" or "caffienated beverages", and the point would be just as valid as a matter of personal standard.

Wasn't it the purchase of Pepsico which caused a huge change in the views of Mormons?