tongue speakers please answer

I don't understand why some seek for the "least" gift listed in Corinthians.
Could it be for an ego trip? To say, "I've got this experience and you don't, so God has to love me more than you"
The bible plainly states to get off the milk and on to meat. If this is the only thing that shows you have the Holy Ghost, then many poor people have been fooled believing you are saved by grace thru faith in Jesus Christ. Then Jesus didn't mean it when He said that ever who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. And of course He didn't mean it when He said the Holy Ghost was a "gift".
Many here have no inclination whatsoever what a free gift is!

And does Jesus say anywhere that you have to speak in tongues to get to heaven? I sure would like to read it.
I am not saying that all tongues are false. Just that you don't have to have them to be saved.
There are too many people that speak in tongues and live like h--- the rest of the time. And how in the world can you exercise a gift if you are living sinful? And how come other religions of the world has this same gift?
People, be careful. The devil is on the loose seeking to devour all he can. He can and does produce counterfiets. I would rather know in my "right mind" that I have the Lord than to only rely on some experience.
I don't want to offend anyone here. As far as I know, everyone here is a christian. Only God can judge the heart.
I just don't like to be told that I don't have the Holy Ghost because I haven't spoken in tongues. No one can see inside my soul. We all will have to stand before the throne one day and give an account of everything we have said or done since being saved.

In Christ
Susan

BTW, why act so "ugly" to our new member? She only said what she believed. Keep in mind, this is a discussion forum![MEE]

Oh, was I? Gee, I'm so sorry. Please forgive me.

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
BTW, why act so "ugly" to our new member? She only said what she believed. Keep in mind, this is a discussion forum![MEE]

Oh, was I? Gee, I'm so sorry. Please forgive me.

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I can't help you there Granny, only God can forgive sins.

MEE

I can't help you there Granny, only God can forgive sins.[MEE]

HE wasn't the one reprimanding me.

Originally posted by MEE:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
BTW, why act so "ugly" to our new member? She only said what she believed. Keep in mind, this is a discussion forum![MEE]

Oh, was I? Gee, I'm so sorry. Please forgive me.

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I can't help you there Granny, only God can forgive sins.

MEE</font>[/QUOTE]Aren't we told to forgive in order for us to be forgiven?

IN Christ
Susan

Matthew 6:14-15(KJV) Christ speaking: "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." Also, Matt.18:35 & Mark 11:26(KJV)

I knew that verse was in there
Amen!

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
Matthew 6:14-15(KJV) Christ speaking: "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." Also, Matt.18:35 & Mark 11:26(KJV)

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If a person wouldn't act so intentionally "ugly" then they wouldn't have to ask forgivness from anyone, would they?

MEE

[ July 11, 2002, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: MEE ]

It is amazing to me how many people will say that Prophecy is preaching the word. There is absolutely no scriptural backing for this matter of fact the complete opposite.

Prophesy is a supernatural manifestation from the Holy Spirit. It foretells things that will happen in the future. This is backed up throughout the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation.

Agabus the prophet was not preaching the word when he prophesied about the storm Euclydon or that Paul would be bound in Jerusalem. Neither was Isaiah when he wrote about the suffering Messiah in the 53rd Chapter.

As far as saying real baptists don't speak in tongues is very far fetched because no one has the exclusion to the name Baptist because the Ana-Baptist used it first and they did speak in tongues.

I read on this thread that tongue talkers live like the Devil the rest of the week. Well, I have been around a lot of Baptists and I can guarantee you that they sure don't live godly lives. They smoke, cuss, drink, commit adultery, lie, cheat, steal on and on and on. Yet they are top members in their local assembly. Am I singling Baptist out, no. I have met just as many Methodist, Catholics, Presbyterians, and on and on and on who are hypocrites etc but I am not going to say all are this way.

As far as I am concerned I would rather have emotion response to the Holy Spirit then sit on a church pew like a corpse lying in a coffin.

Everyone on this thread can criticize Tongues and Pentecostals and Charismatics but people are leaving churches right and left and this is where they are headed. The Baptist church I have been attending used to have attendance of 1200 now it is down to running 500-700. All those who have left they have found out have joined these kind of churches. Why is this? Is this is so far of the DEvil then why are people leaving Baptist churches and heading to churches they feel that are alive. This is not just an Oklahoma thing but it is all over the nation. Maybe you cessassionist and hard line Baptist need to look at your beliefs and realize sooner or later you are going to be sitting in half empty churches.

Originally posted by Don:

"Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy."

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Don,

Can I take this to mean you believe in the gift of prophesy. And if the answer is yes how can you believe in the gift of prophesy and not believe in the gift of tongues?

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
BTW, why act so "ugly" to our new member? She only said what she believed. Keep in mind, this is a discussion forum![MEE]

Oh, was I? Gee, I'm so sorry. Please forgive me.

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You're forgiven!

Originally posted by hrhema:
Prophesy is a supernatural manifestation from the Holy Spirit. It foretells things that will happen in the future. This is backed up throughout the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation.

As far as saying real baptists don't speak in tongues is very far fetched because no one has the exclusion to the name Baptist because the Ana-Baptist used it first and they did speak in tongues.

I read on this thread that tongue talkers live like the Devil the rest of the week. Well, I have been around a lot of Baptists and I can guarantee you that they sure don't live godly lives. They smoke, cuss, drink, commit adultery, lie, cheat, steal on and on and on. Yet they are top members in their local assembly. Am I singling Baptist out, no. I have met just as many Methodist, Catholics, Presbyterians, and on and on and on who are hypocrites etc but I am not going to say all are this way.

As far as I am concerned I would rather have emotion response to the Holy Spirit then sit on a church pew like a corpse lying in a coffin.

Everyone on this thread can criticize Tongues and Pentecostals and Charismatics but people are leaving churches right and left and this is where they are headed. The Baptist church I have been attending used to have attendance of 1200 now it is down to running 500-700. All those who have left they have found out have joined these kind of churches. Why is this? Is this is so far of the DEvil then why are people leaving Baptist churches and heading to churches they feel that are alive. This is not just an Oklahoma thing but it is all over the nation. Maybe you cessassionist and hard line Baptist need to look at your beliefs and realize sooner or later you are going to be sitting in half empty churches.

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Thank you so much for this seemingly well thought about and truthful post. I was mulling over the statement that was made that "tongue talkers live like the devil the rest of the week" and asking God for a true, yet humble, response. Here is my response to that statement. I was born a Baptist and was until I was 21 years old. My family heritage is Baptist so I know quite a bit about the Baptist "laws", and that is just what they are, laws. I was in the choir, usher board, BYTU, Hospitality committees, and just about everything else my grandmother and mother could put me in, yet I was still fornicating, cursing, drinking, smoking, etc. The covenant sign that most Baptist churches display condemn all of this, including the use of tobacco, fornicating, filthy conversation, etc., yet so many indulge in these sins "religiously" and hide behind "But God knows my heart". I went to Pentecostal church and felt a difference. I felt the true love of God. I felt conviction about how I was living. I had never ever felt that in the Baptist Church. And as soon as someone in the Baptist Church shows any display of an emotional response to the move of God, they start fanning and carrying folks out of the church like something's wrong with them.
Psalm 150 talks about praising God with a shout and a dance, why try to stop people from shouting.
I like your comparison of a cold, stale church service being like lying in a coffin like you're dead. Anything dead ought to be buried. I am not dead so I prefer a church where there is life, and if emotion is a sign of life, then sobeit. I am not saying it's only emotion, there are times when God moves in a still quiet way, there is no emotion at that time. People need to know the difference.
Yes, people are leaving denominal and/or traditional churches for real honest to goodness churches. You can't be so quick to judge something you know nothing about. If you've never actually heard the Word preached in these type of churches then you only know what you have been told. The Word of God is preached, and that includes have the 5 fold ministry in operation.
I believe this will be my last post on this subject, and probably this forum. Thanks for your attention.
God Bless You All in the name of Jesus
Your Sister in Christ,
Yolanda

Yolanda and hrhema,
Please notice in both of posts that they are simply your opinions, based on your experiences. They are not backed up with Scripture neither indeed can be. In fact they go contrary to the Scriptures as has already been shown, if you have taken the time to read. You can't just sit there and say I have had this experience and therefore it is true, when the Scripture says otherwise.

Mormons, Hindus and Voodoo worshipers have all spoken in tongues. Do they also have the Holy Spirit? Or do they have the same spirit as you? How do you know?
DHK

[ July 11, 2002, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

Everyone on this thread can criticize Tongues and Pentecostals and Charismatics but people are leaving churches right and left and this is where they are headed.[hrhema]

"You got that right! This movement is definitely growing by leaps and bounds, but with every passing day there are additional confirmations that this is NOT a movement of the genuine Holy Spirit, but of a false spirit."

EVEN SO, COME, LORD JESUS!

DHK;

I have read all the post over and over and over again on this subject and all of what you and others who are cessanists state are your opinions and interpretation of scripture. The scriptures do not back up what you say. You twist them to fit your beliefs. You state people haven't asked questions you have posed but you have not answered certain questions either.

This subject is at a stalemate because you won't convince anyone who speaks in tongues nor will we convince those who do not. When people get to Heaven if they do then they will have all the answers.

Granny Gumbo: I think a lot of your attitude comes from the fact that your son is in what you consider a false belief. I questioned you before of why he would have left the Baptist church if the Baptist church was giving him what he needed. Don't blame the devil for the Baptist churchs failure. People don't leave churches normally just to leave. They leave because of dissatisfaction. It is obvious your son was not satisfied by the church he was attending.

I will add another statement. If the Baptist churches would get their heads out of the sand, start preaching messages from the Bible instead out of the popular book from the Book store or local seminar, start teaching the people to live Godly lives, and provide worship music so people can feel like they have been to church then unhappy Baptists would not leave.

Not for one minute do I believe these people become tongue talkers necessarily. Yet they attend the churches because they feel like they get what they need and over look the excesses.

If Baptist churches would learn to become caring churches and not social clubs then they would not lose so many members to these other churches.

I am Baptist and I came back to being Baptist because the church I attended was once on fire and a great church. Now it has fallen into liberalism and lost half its numbers and yes they have gone looking for what was lost. These people wanted praise and worship music. They wanted the pastor to keep calling them to a season of prayer for 10 minutes before he preached like he used to do.

Please allow me to step in and make a few points which I think are very important. Before I begin, let me share a little about my background. I am a conservative Southern Baptist. I do NOT believe that the gift of tongues is for today; however, I respect the opinions of those who differ in that regard. I have attended several different charismatic churches on various occasions, and dated someone for a good while who was very much a tongues-speaker (we had some rather interesting discussions! ). In fact, my wife comes from a "Full Gospel" background, although she herself does not speak in tongues.

I have studied this topic extensively and have tried my best to get both sides of the story. Here are a few things I think we should all be aware of:

1. Many charismatics/tongues-speakers are not Biblically illiterate, etc. They are quite knowledgeable theologically and do actually back up their beliefs in valid ways. Likewise, many Baptists, etc. aren't just closed-minded, stubborn, etc. regarding the tongues issue - like myself, they have thoroughly studied the issue and have very valid reasons for rejecting the tongues movement.

2. Tongues is NOT the be-all/end-all of spirituality. I could point out numerous, well-know, godly Christians who have done great, great things for the cause of Christ - but they were NOT tongues-speakers. To say that we MUST speak in tongues to be truly spiritual, close to God, etc. is simply false. We would all do well to spend more time in God's Word, in prayer, and in doing His work - these are the things that TRULY help us to grow closer to God.

3a. In charismatic circles, there seems to be a stereotype of Baptist churches as being cold, lifeless, boring, unspiritual, legalistic, etc. As a lifelong Baptist, I can truly say that many churches out there DO fit the stereotype. However, please do not make the mistake of thinking that ALL Baptist churches are like this. I have had the privilege of belonging to several Southern Baptist churches that:
- are on fire for God, Spirit-filled (in the
true definition)
- are very evangelistic
- are very much alive, growing, and definitely
NOT boring
- challenge their members to grow spiritually
and equip them to be passionate about the
things of God
However... these churches are NOT proponents of the tongues movement - more evidence that tongues are NOT a necessary thing.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that we could all be a bit more respectful of everyone else's opinions and not resort to stereotyping, insults, etc. I've seen some posts on this thread that I could not believe would come out the mouths (fingers?) of Spirit-filled believers in Christ. If my beliefs are challenged, I will certainly defend them... but I will do so in a respectful and Christlike way.

I'll get off my soapbox now... thanks for reading!

If a person wouldn't act so intentionally "ugly" then they wouldn't have to ask forgivness from anyone, would they?[MEE]

MEE~now, I don't believe I was acting ugly, as you say, intentionally; but apparently you are, so perhaps you should be the one doing the asking.

JesusFirstAndLast(Yolanda)~You have shown grace by forgiving; "thanky"! (must be some of that Baptist heritage left in ya

hrhema~My 'attitude' comes from the fact that I hate sin & satan's lies. Patrick didn't leave the Baptist Church because it wasn't giving him what he needed; he left because he was rejecting what was being offered to him and a group of charismatics persuaded him that there was fresh fire & another Jesus down the road. Our church did not fail him, as a matter of fact, it rather encouraged him; however, I do hold satan responsible for seducing him. Our son has been in 3 different "apostolic/oneness" 'churches' in the three years he's been caught-up in it...does that sound like he's satisfied to you?

Originally posted by boris99:

I'll get off my soapbox now... thanks for reading!

[/QB]

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Get back on it brother, or sister! We may differ in our opinion of tongues, but I agree 100 fold with what you just wrote! You are truly my brother, or sister in the Lord!
Naomi

From Multimom:

Don,
Can I take this to mean you believe in the gift of prophesy. And if the answer is yes how can you believe in the gift of prophesy and not believe in the gift of tongues?

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Prophesy (with an "s", as used in 1 Corinthians 14:1)
From the Greek word "propheteuo" meaning:
To speak by divine inspiration
To predict the future
To utter a thing that could only be known by divine revelation

1 Corinthians 14:24 But if all prophesy (utter things that could only be known by divine revelation), and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all (because he has heard things, maybe even about himself, that none of these people could know about, and therefore knows that they have received divine revelation):
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

In answer to your question, Multimom, I haven't seen or actually heard of anyone expressing the gift of prophesy the way that it's described here. I don't believe the gift of prophesy is being used correctly any more than I believe the gift of tongues is.

The reason I emphasized 1 Cor 14:1 is because JFAL skipped it. JFAL went straight to v.2, which de-emphasizes the fact that Paul was placing less emphasis on the gift of tongues, and telling the church at Corinth they needed to worry about the edification of others rather than their selfish emphasis on getting the gift of tongues.