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The Difference?
- Thread starter Walls
- Start date
I will give it a shot! But it may not be fully accurate.
I assume that IFB is Independent Fundamental Baptist - They do not associate in a denomination and are very conservative theologically and socially; politically active; often rely only on KJV.
Free Will Baptists - Historically most Baptists were Calvinists in which they believe that God predestines who will be saved. The Baptists who did not believe this were Free Will Baptists which means that they believe that men have a free will to choose God or reject God. There is less distinctiveness sine other Baptists have shifted in this direction.
Primitive Baptists - They seek to return to the Church of the First Century. Amongst other things they do not believe in denominations.
Landmark Baptists - They believe that one can trace an succession of Baptist-like believing churches all the way back to John the Baptist. They believe that makes Baptist like churches the only true churches.
Everyone, please correct any mistakes.
Charlie
I assume that IFB is Independent Fundamental Baptist - They do not associate in a denomination and are very conservative theologically and socially; politically active; often rely only on KJV.
Free Will Baptists - Historically most Baptists were Calvinists in which they believe that God predestines who will be saved. The Baptists who did not believe this were Free Will Baptists which means that they believe that men have a free will to choose God or reject God. There is less distinctiveness sine other Baptists have shifted in this direction.
Primitive Baptists - They seek to return to the Church of the First Century. Amongst other things they do not believe in denominations.
Landmark Baptists - They believe that one can trace an succession of Baptist-like believing churches all the way back to John the Baptist. They believe that makes Baptist like churches the only true churches.
Everyone, please correct any mistakes.
Charlie
Jeff Weaver
New Member
Jimmy Edwards wrote:
We just don't believe their is any scriptural warrant for the Church to have them.
Jeff.
Now, Jimmy, we believe in them, that is to say we believe they exist,
We just don't believe their is any scriptural warrant for the Church to have them. Jeff.
Jeff Weaver
New Member
Charlite T noted:
Thanks, close, but no cigar. We don't seek to return to the Church of the First century, but rather use the Church of the First Century as a model. We also believe in denominations -- they exisit, we believe they exist. They probably shouldn't, but they do.
Jeff.
Charlie
Thanks, close, but no cigar. We don't seek to return to the Church of the First century, but rather use the Church of the First Century as a model. We also believe in denominations -- they exisit, we believe they exist. They probably shouldn't, but they do.
Jeff.
Jeff & Brother Glen:
Thanks for the clarification.
Frankly, I know the least about my Primitive Baptist brothers, though I know a little. I have no first hand experience and book knowledge is always lacking. I hope none of my comments were offensive, even if worded poorly.
Charlie
Thanks for the clarification.
Frankly, I know the least about my Primitive Baptist brothers, though I know a little. I have no first hand experience and book knowledge is always lacking. I hope none of my comments were offensive, even if worded poorly.
Charlie
A few points:
Our Primitive Baptist brethren are predestinarian, though to call them Calvinist (according to what I understand) is to miss the mark. God will find all his Elect according to his own means and time. Many also consider footwashing an ordinance. (Bro. Glen and Jeff, feel free to correct me here. I have, as it were, learned at your feet.) Most Primitive Baptists use only the KJV, but they are not necessarily KJVO. (This entirely ignores the Progressive Primitive Baptists, but I don't know any on this board.)
Landmark Baptists, I think, tend toward predestinarianism, but are not exclusively "Calvinist." The American Baptist Association, from its documents, does not hold to limited atonement. Those who don't are often railed against by those who do.
IFBs can overlap with Landmark Baptists. Or not.
Free Will Baptists are Arminian in doctrine and, from my experience, practice footwashing.
As with all Baptists, your mileage may vary. Every church is autonomous, and one makes generalizations with the understanding that no one size fits all -- and sometimes no size fits anyone.
Our Primitive Baptist brethren are predestinarian, though to call them Calvinist (according to what I understand) is to miss the mark. God will find all his Elect according to his own means and time. Many also consider footwashing an ordinance. (Bro. Glen and Jeff, feel free to correct me here. I have, as it were, learned at your feet.) Most Primitive Baptists use only the KJV, but they are not necessarily KJVO. (This entirely ignores the Progressive Primitive Baptists, but I don't know any on this board.)
Landmark Baptists, I think, tend toward predestinarianism, but are not exclusively "Calvinist." The American Baptist Association, from its documents, does not hold to limited atonement. Those who don't are often railed against by those who do.
IFBs can overlap with Landmark Baptists. Or not.
Free Will Baptists are Arminian in doctrine and, from my experience, practice footwashing.
As with all Baptists, your mileage may vary. Every church is autonomous, and one makes generalizations with the understanding that no one size fits all -- and sometimes no size fits anyone.
Jeff Weaver
New Member
Charlie T. noted:
Jeff,
No offense felt or preceived to be intended. Just a point of clarification. We are a small group, and largely misunderstood.
Jeff,
Jeff Weaver
New Member
RSR noted:
You are largely correct, and I like the way you phrase it. There are some, although it is a very small minority of Primitive Baptists who might be considered strict Calvinists. You also have the Authorized Version (aka King James Version) issue pretty well nailed down. I personally have a variety of versions, concordances, dictionaries, etc., and don't rely on any one exclusively, although the Authorized Version is my perfered one. I grew up with it - I suppose that is the reason. But I do recognize that there are difficulties with some translations there. (I was a linguist for the Army for several years, so I appreciate the nuance of language, idioms, etc.)
A question for you though - do you understand why we take the position we do about the elect? "God will find all his Elect according to his own means and time." Do you care? Will try to explain it if you'd like, but if not, will not bore everyone with it.
Jeff
RSR
You are largely correct, and I like the way you phrase it. There are some, although it is a very small minority of Primitive Baptists who might be considered strict Calvinists. You also have the Authorized Version (aka King James Version) issue pretty well nailed down. I personally have a variety of versions, concordances, dictionaries, etc., and don't rely on any one exclusively, although the Authorized Version is my perfered one. I grew up with it - I suppose that is the reason. But I do recognize that there are difficulties with some translations there. (I was a linguist for the Army for several years, so I appreciate the nuance of language, idioms, etc.)
A question for you though - do you understand why we take the position we do about the elect? "God will find all his Elect according to his own means and time." Do you care? Will try to explain it if you'd like, but if not, will not bore everyone with it.
Jeff
Primitive Baptist and Brother Jeff can correct me if I'm in error believe that God is in control of our Eternal Salvation. Those that belong to God and were given to his Son Jesus Christ to die for the elect chosen before the foundation of the world shall never perish. We don't believe that Eternal Salvation which is a gift of Gods amazing grace you can obtain upon your own in any way. We believe it is all of God or none of God and that according to scripture and our belief you cannot birth yourself... You didn't do it naturally and you sure cannot do it spiritually.
We believe in spiritual regeneration instead of gospel regeneration and believe that the gospel is spiritual food for those who already know God. Like the scriptures state... All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. That's who it is written to and belongs to and who gets the benefit from it and none else.
I also hear those on here saying if I believed the way you do... Once saved always saved I would go do what I want and have my fill of sin because it doesn't matter I'm heaven bound anyway?... A nice senario but try it and though you belong to God you will suffer here in time just like the children of Israel did and remember although David was a man after Gods own heart he lost the joys of his salvation in time and not eternity. It can happen to any one of us but to touch one of Gods own you have to overthrow the Godhead.
So tell me brethren who shall separate Gods elect... us from the love of Christ?... The crowning point of Romans 8:28-30 are the 31st thru the 39th verses... The scripture state plainly that none of Gods blood bought grace wrought tokens of his amazing grace and love shall ever lose their eternal salvation... Then we are not afraid to tell it like it is and that brethren is the difference in the Primitive Baptist compared to other Baptist and denominations... Brother Glen Of The Primitive Baptist Brethren
We believe in spiritual regeneration instead of gospel regeneration and believe that the gospel is spiritual food for those who already know God. Like the scriptures state... All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. That's who it is written to and belongs to and who gets the benefit from it and none else.
I also hear those on here saying if I believed the way you do... Once saved always saved I would go do what I want and have my fill of sin because it doesn't matter I'm heaven bound anyway?... A nice senario but try it and though you belong to God you will suffer here in time just like the children of Israel did and remember although David was a man after Gods own heart he lost the joys of his salvation in time and not eternity. It can happen to any one of us but to touch one of Gods own you have to overthrow the Godhead.
So tell me brethren who shall separate Gods elect... us from the love of Christ?... The crowning point of Romans 8:28-30 are the 31st thru the 39th verses... The scripture state plainly that none of Gods blood bought grace wrought tokens of his amazing grace and love shall ever lose their eternal salvation... Then we are not afraid to tell it like it is and that brethren is the difference in the Primitive Baptist compared to other Baptist and denominations... Brother Glen Of The Primitive Baptist Brethren
Can you tell me about Southern Baptist? There is a church within 5 miles of us. We are planning on attending at least one service, but would like to know what to expect. We don't know much about any Baptist except IFB, any contribution to this subject would greatly be appreciated.
There is no way to predict because the variety is too wide.
The worship style can range from traditional (hymns and organ) to contemporary (guitars and praise and worship).
Although the convention has adopted the Baptist Faith and Message, it is not binding on the churches.
Theology can range from full-blown Reformed to modified Calvinism to modified Arminianism.
Services may be very strait-laced or emotional. Depends on the pastor and the congregation -- even the area where you're located.
I would not, however, expect anything that will blow your mind.
The worship style can range from traditional (hymns and organ) to contemporary (guitars and praise and worship).
Although the convention has adopted the Baptist Faith and Message, it is not binding on the churches.
Theology can range from full-blown Reformed to modified Calvinism to modified Arminianism.
Services may be very strait-laced or emotional. Depends on the pastor and the congregation -- even the area where you're located.
I would not, however, expect anything that will blow your mind.
Walls,
The following link will take you to the Baptist Faith and Message for Southern Baptists:
http://www.bgco.org/
Click on Who we are and scroll down to the Text of the Baptist Faith and Message.
RSR is correct. This is not binding on the individual church and you will not find two Southern Baptist churches exactly alike, but similar.
The Southern Baptist Churches that I have belonged to, for the most part, follow the Faith and Message. Their worship has been traditional, hymns with organ and piano and some have had orchestras.
The morning service is always more formal than the Sunday evening service. You may find all kinds of musical instruments in an evening service.
But all of these churches that I have belonged to have believed in the one true God, the Trinity, God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
They believe in John 3:16 and once saved or born again, the person has eternal life. They practice Baptism but not to be saved and the Lord's Supper.
We have an invitation ( some call it an altar call) at each service so that people can make a decision, which includes to accept salvation, join the church, rededicate one's life, surrender to special service, etc. This gives them the opportunity to make any decision public.
We believe in missions and missionaries and part of the offering each Sunday goes to missions.
Usually, they use the SBC study guides for Sunday School, but they do not have to.
In this faith and message, the church is descibed as follows:
"VI. The Church
A New Testament church of the Lord Jesus Christ is an autonomous local congregation of baptized believers, associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the gospel; observing the two ordinances of Christ, governed by His laws, exercising the gifts, rights, and privileges invested in them by His Word, and seeking to extend the gospel to the ends of the earth. Each congregation operates under the Lordship of Christ through democratic processes. In such a congregation each member is responsible and accountable to Christ as Lord. Its scriptural officers are pastors and deacons. While both men and women are gifted for service in the church, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture.
The New Testament speaks also of the church as the Body of Christ which includes all of the redeemed of all the ages, believers from every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.
Matthew 16:15-19; 18:15-20; Acts 2:41-42,47; 5:11-14; 6:3-6; 13:1-3; 14:23,27; 15:1-30; 16:5; 20:28; Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 3:16; 5:4-5; 7:17; 9:13-14; 12; Ephesians 1:22-23; 2:19-22; 3:8-11,21; 5:22-32; Philippians 1:1; Colossians 1:18; 1 Timothy 2:9-14; 3:1-15; 4:14; Hebrews 11:39-40; 1 Peter 5:1-4; Revelation 2-3; 21:2-3.
See the above site for more info and scriptures.
The following link will take you to the Baptist Faith and Message for Southern Baptists:
http://www.bgco.org/
Click on Who we are and scroll down to the Text of the Baptist Faith and Message.
RSR is correct. This is not binding on the individual church and you will not find two Southern Baptist churches exactly alike, but similar.
The Southern Baptist Churches that I have belonged to, for the most part, follow the Faith and Message. Their worship has been traditional, hymns with organ and piano and some have had orchestras.
The morning service is always more formal than the Sunday evening service. You may find all kinds of musical instruments in an evening service.
But all of these churches that I have belonged to have believed in the one true God, the Trinity, God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
They believe in John 3:16 and once saved or born again, the person has eternal life. They practice Baptism but not to be saved and the Lord's Supper.
We have an invitation ( some call it an altar call) at each service so that people can make a decision, which includes to accept salvation, join the church, rededicate one's life, surrender to special service, etc. This gives them the opportunity to make any decision public.
We believe in missions and missionaries and part of the offering each Sunday goes to missions.
Usually, they use the SBC study guides for Sunday School, but they do not have to.
In this faith and message, the church is descibed as follows:
"VI. The Church
A New Testament church of the Lord Jesus Christ is an autonomous local congregation of baptized believers, associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the gospel; observing the two ordinances of Christ, governed by His laws, exercising the gifts, rights, and privileges invested in them by His Word, and seeking to extend the gospel to the ends of the earth. Each congregation operates under the Lordship of Christ through democratic processes. In such a congregation each member is responsible and accountable to Christ as Lord. Its scriptural officers are pastors and deacons. While both men and women are gifted for service in the church, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture.
The New Testament speaks also of the church as the Body of Christ which includes all of the redeemed of all the ages, believers from every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation.
Matthew 16:15-19; 18:15-20; Acts 2:41-42,47; 5:11-14; 6:3-6; 13:1-3; 14:23,27; 15:1-30; 16:5; 20:28; Romans 1:7; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 3:16; 5:4-5; 7:17; 9:13-14; 12; Ephesians 1:22-23; 2:19-22; 3:8-11,21; 5:22-32; Philippians 1:1; Colossians 1:18; 1 Timothy 2:9-14; 3:1-15; 4:14; Hebrews 11:39-40; 1 Peter 5:1-4; Revelation 2-3; 21:2-3.
See the above site for more info and scriptures.
Now, Jimmy, we believe in them, that is to say we believe they exist,
We just don't believe their is any scriptural warrant for the Church to have them. Jeff.</font>[/QUOTE]I would also like to add something to what Brother Jeff said... We true Primitive Baptist know that other denomination have those mentioned above in their churches... We accept that because that is your way and manner of worship... but try to add those mentioned above in Old Line/Old School Primitive Baptist Churches and you have a definate fight on your hands. Those that depart from the Old Line/Old School camp even though in name maybe Primitive Baptist have added things that don't belong and lose their identity being now considered Progressive or liberal.
Not all Primitive Baptist Churches wash feet but that is not a test of fellowship among our brethren. I've never been in a Primitive Baptist Church that uses instruments of any kind during worship service... A brother in our church use to use a pitch pipe to pitch a tune but other than that I've never used one. I am the song leader and every PB church I've been in sings accapella. The Progressives use what they want organ, piano, and add what they want to their churches having left the old paths that our father and mothers of Zion established... Brother Glen Of The Primitive Baptist Brethren
Jeff Weaver
New Member
Jimmy
I was picking at you, it was all in fun. Brother Glen covered the music thing above, and think that pretty well covers it. Sorry for being out of the loop today. We are building a fellowship hall at church, and we members are doing the work, so was off today swinging a stapler installing insulation.
Jeff.