The Difference?

You two are just so humble... but take a bow anyway!... Another book that might help Lone Pilgrim is A Portion For Singers... A history of music among Primitive Baptist since 1800 by R. Paul Drummond!... Is this book still in print and what do you two think?... Brother Glen Of The Primitive Baptist Brethren

 

Bro. Glen opined:

I don't know this book Bro. Glen. Do you have a bibliographic citation -- I would like to get a copy. The book, I presume of the same genre, that I am familiar with is "Sound of the Dove" by Beverly Patterson. There is a recording which goes along with this book, and I am in there in a place or two.

Bro. Robert, I haven't forgotten about your hymnal question -- the Ebenezer hymnal, if I recall correctly without looking up your email. I hope to get to Elon College sometime soon and will look for it, and if practical will make a copy of it.

Jeff.,

 

Brother Jeff it was published in 1989 by The Christian Baptist Library and Publishing Company Inc Atwood, TN 38220. It is a must for Humble Hymnology Professors like you and Robert and anyone else that is interested in Primitive Baptist music. Does Elder Tolley still own it?... Brother Robert since you are around Old Baptist have you ever heard of Sonny Lowrance he is in Seguin, Texas... anyway he was in 1989. He wrote the preface to the book and is a good friend of the author... Hope this helps!... A definate must for those who listen and love to sing the songs of Zion!... If anyone finds out how to get this book make sure and let the other brethren know!... That is what we are here for!... Brother Glen

 

No sooner did I finish what I posted and I found his website... Okay you two meet the real expert with proven creditials... Brother Glen

http://192.245.42.214/conservatory/faculty/rpd/rpd.htm

 

Wow, lots to reply to. First, Bro. Glen, if I am not mistaken, Sonny Lowrance attends Oak Hill PBC in Oak Hill, TX (just outside of Austin). I remember meeting a Lowrance there, and I think it was him. It is a fairly large church, so I met lots of people I don't remember names for. Second, Drummond's book is an excellent book. I highly recommend it. I'm not sure if it is still available; I bought it when it first came out. And Bro. Jeff, after thinking about it, I looked up and found information about the John Clark hymn book in A Portion for the Singers. The only complaint I might have about Professor Drummond's book is that because of his great amount of knowledge and skill in the music field, he tends to prefer and promote a little different type of music from what I like. This "prejudice" is noticeable in his book, if you know what to look for. There are quite a few PB churches here in Texas that like a little more high-falutin kind of music than I do. That doesn't mean I think we should do as poorly as we can with our singing. It's more about the kind of tunes we use and the style in which we sing them. Ever listen to Elder Bradley's "Baptist Bible Hour"? Their singing sounds like a trained choir. They sound good, but I prefer the lonesome sound of a few old brothers and sisters that know more of singing from tradition than from training. Not that I'm against being trained in music, it's like any other training - it can help you or hurt you, according to what you let it do. Oh well, I'm getter deeper in trouble and more confused; I'd better move on. BTW, for those who don't know, Professor Drummond is a Primitive Baptist.

 

Brother Robert... Small PB world isn't it?... I like what you had to say and hope Brother Jeff can get a hold of the book... Maybe he can get an autographed copy? I know he will like it. You, Jeff, and I need to get together in song... We can call ourselves the three... baritones?... tenors?... ?????... I don't know what you are or Jeff is but I know I'm proud and loud... The Lord is listening ... Brother Glen

 

I didn't hear or see a piano did I? ... Sorry we don't have a choir ... Brother Glen

 

Walls, I feel I'm getting this further off your topic, but these questions were asked, so I want to try to answer them. And the music does go toward showing a major difference between Primitive Baptists and most other Baptists.

To Lone Pilgrim: Here are some tunes that I have heard used in Old Baptist churches. These are not all the tunes I hear in Old Baptist churches, just the ones to which I know the names. First is the page number in the Hymn Book, then the name of the tune, then a source where that tune may be found. I used the Broadman where I could, since it is a fairly common hymnal that many people have. I used the Harp of Ages where possible, since you said that you have a copy of that. The other references are from the Sacred Harp 1992 Revised Cooper Edition.

THE PRIMITIVE HYMNS BY BENJAMIN LLOYD:
3; New Britain; almost any hymnal in the South
5; Ninety-Third; The Sacred Harp, p. 31A
6; Devotion; The Sacred Harp, p. 48A
8; Ester; The Sacred Harp, p. 437
12; Heavenly Home; Broadman Hymnal, 261
16; Woodworth; Broadman, 162 - "Just As I Am"
75; Idumea; Harp of Ages, 32
96; New Britain - "Amazing Grace"
119; Columbus; The Sacred Harp, p. 67
121; Beach Spring; The Sacred Harp, p. 81; also to a tune similar to "The Fire Song - Oh, my dear brother, when the world's on fire, don't you want God's bosom to be your pillow..."
130; Sessions; The Sacred Harp, p. 38A
143; Duane Street; The Sacred Harp, p. 164
153; Cusseta; The Sacred Harp, p. 73A
155; Cusseta; The Sacred Harp, p. 73A
159; Lenox; The Sacred Harp, p. 40
184; I Would See Jesus; The Sacred Harp, p. 75
194; Forest; Harp of Ages, 110
196; Dennis; the very common tune used with "Blest Be the Tie"
201; King of Peace; Harp of Ages, 109
204; Weeping Sinners; Harp of Ages, 65
237; What a Friend We Have in Jesus; Broadman, 160
300; Brown; Harp of Ages, 163
322; She is Sleeping; The Sacred Harp, p. 540
329; Nettleton; Broadman, 190
330; Martyn; Broadman, 172
333; Mercy Seat; Harp of Ages, 12
338; Hinder Me Not; The Sacred Harp, p. 355
338; Arlington; Broadman, 176
345; Canaan's Land; The Sacred Harp, p. 101A

I have more but this is getting long, so I'll close for now. Generally, these songs are sung with only the melody - no alto, tenor, or bass parts. Sometimes that will vary, with a singer or a few adding a part. In regions where The Sacred Harp tradition is strong, the folks may sing their part from memory, and the church singing then sounds more like a Sacred Harp singing. To get the flavor of singing of Old Baptists here in the southwest (for churches that haven't modernized their sound), here are a few pointers. Sing the songs much slower than you think they should be sung. Then add what musicians probably call "appoggiatura." These are melodic ornaments, like grace notes. In practice it is sliding up or down from one note to the next - usually hitting just above or below the "intended" note, then sliding to where you're "supposed to be." I don't really know how to explain it any better than that. It's best to just hear it. Hope this helps.

 

Dear Brothers, I thank you all for the help. As far as I know Elder Tollie still has a few books for sale, but I don't remember hearing anything on the Ebenezer Hymnal. I know Brother Don Fortner has a sovereign grace songbook too. He is not a PB, but his book is very similar to the Lloyds, Goble, Beebe, etc. and from what I have read in it, it is very sound. A number of PB churches also use the Gadsby which has its Companion Tune Book. The timing on the old songs is often so different from anything contemporary I (and my wife) struggle to work it out. As you advised me, I told her we may need to just slow it down. I am hoping to start some Old Baptist meetings in towns around, but we have so few PB's around here the music is really a challenge. thanks again for all your help. LP

 

Boy, did we ever hijack this thread. Sorry Walls. Thats the way it goes on the BB more often than it should.

Here in Appalachia our singing style is very mornful, dolful, or as described by Ray Davis, a folk music radio Dj -- plumb pitiful. It can take 10 minutes to sing a song that would take 3 by anyone else. I'm quite serious about that. We also still "line-out" hymns like in the days before everyone had a hymnal or could read and write. I have no idea why except it is tradition. I dont even need a hymnal for most of the hymns.

Bro. Glen, I can't carry a tune in a bucket most of the time. I used to could before the strokes, but now it is difficult to get very loud, so you might not want me in that trio. Sometimes I can't even make my tongue work.

One of these days I will update my hymn website to add the tunes to the hymns. Would that be more helpful?

Well, today is meeting time at my home church, so if you folks have a mind pray for us to have a good meeting.

JEff.

 

Bro. Jeff, I think it would be wonderful if you ever have opportunity to add tunes to your site!

 

And I will add a hearty AMEN!... To that!... Brother Glen

 

We must be unique in Canada. We formed the Fellowship of Evangelical Baptist Churches in Canada.....Not a denomination, but a fellowship of independent Baptist Churches. In any one of the 600 churches, one might find a Primitive Baptist, a Lanmarkist Baptist, a Regular Baptist, Conservative, fundamentalist, kjo...

We seem to get along quite well and generally work together in our own little corners. Perhaps this is the way it was meant to be.

Cheers,

Jim