Finally, an answer to the KJV issue!

Brethren, the Lord showed my Pastor and me something very interesting yesterday. It may help with this KJV issue.

The question? Is the TRUTH the most important thing?

The natural "knee-jerk" reaction to this would be an adamant, YES! But did you really look at the question?

What is the purpose of the TRUTH? Is the TRUTH an end in itself? Or, rather, is it a means to the TRUE END? Pastor and I believe it is the latter.
(For instance, please see Galatians 3:21-29.)

What is the true end? The answer should be obvious--GOD! By application it would be a restored relationship with God through faith in the finished work and precious blood of Christ.

How does this relate to the KJV controversy? Here's how--we've stopped ONE STEP SHORT of the end by "parking" at the KJV. In essence, like the Galatian church, we've attempted to establish our own righteousness through our attitude and position on the KJV. Rather we should take Paul's admonition--"God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world."

Let us also consider this--how are we using TRUTH? Are we using it to exalt self or are we using it to point to the Savior?

I've had the privilege of being in many different churches as a staff member over the last 19 years. Through this God has been so gracious to give a varied, but clear, overview of the churches in the USA. I've worked in churches that glory in the truth as an end. I am now serving in an independent, Baptist church that seeks to do this one thing--to possess and communicate an unquenchable passion for the supremacy of the Lord Jesus Christ in all things. The latter is a delightful place to serve the Lord Jesus.

Brethren, why are we here any way? Have we been shooting our guns at each other so long that we can no longer hear the Master say the GO YE of Matthew 28? When will all this madness end?

Think about this--IT'S NOT ABOUT TRUTH AS IN END IN ITSELF. IT'S ABOUT WHO THE TRUTH REVEALS. It's the truth that sets us free (John 8). We are sanctified through the truth of the Word of God (John 17). The just shall live by faith (Romans 1). Faith comes via the Word of God (Romans 10). But according to Romans 10:4, "Christ is the END OF THE LAW for righteousness to every one that believeth." (emphasis mine)

As I've posted so many times before,the KJV is the only Bible I use in Christian ministry. I read the KJV every morning for my devotions. I love this precious translation. But I refuse to make this translation an idol or point of contention in my Christian service.

Do I see the dangers of some of the other translations? Yes! But I see this KJV issue as THE DIVISIVE TOOL OF SATAN to destroy the mission of the local church--to evangelize the lost and encourage the saved for service.

BRETHREN, THINK ABOUT IT!

Personally, I have been confused for several years about the Bible translation issue...I've never received peace about it either way and have heard strong testimony from devoted believers on both sides.

Ultimately, as I believe you were mentioning, we must be careful, no matter what stance we take, not to look down on other Christians. The Pharisee tried this by comparing himself to the tax collector...we all know who Jesus said went home justified that day. Basically, we can't live someone else's life. We can share Christ with others and exhort them to follow whatever version we prefer, but ultimately, it's between them and God and I can't judge their spirituality on their decision.

Romans 14;3 and following so eloquently makes the point of your reply to the starting post.

"Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. LET EVERY MAN BE FULLY PERSUADED IN HIS OWN MIND [emphasis mine] He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks........"

This passage goes on to culminate in the final idea--EVERY ONE OF US SHALL GIVE ACCOUNT OF HIMSELF TO GOD. [emphasis mine]

So, you're on track with your thought. Why can't we apply the above principles from Romans regarding meat and the observance of days to the KJV issue?

Is it self-righteousness? What is the point? INERRANCY AND INTEGRITY OF THE SCRIPTURES is very important, but not to the point of Bibliolatry as in the KJV issue before us in the 21st century.

We honestly need to "push the reset button" and get back to the primary mission of every Christian and the local church--EVANGELISM AND EDIFICATION.

I heard a preacher state you have to stand for something or you will fall for anything. There are many men who are scholars in areas of biblical translations. I'm not one of them and I thank God for it! God gave each of them their talents and they read the scriptures in greek and hebrew and that is their gift.

I read the KJV in english because God in his goodness and mercy had those in the past translate it into a language I can understand. No matter what other scholars have said that one translation is better than another is of no interest to me.

I brought up a similar question a while back that to me all the discourse on argument of comparing translations was to me dishonoring to God. That is how men are and they are not about to change, as that is their traditions. My remarks fell on deaf ears.

I went into a different KJV discussion group not the baptist board sometimes back to discuss the beauties of the KJV that I read and enjoy. To talk to these people you wouldn't even know they were christians, only because the site was KJV did you think they were. They were not there to discuss the KJV IMHO but to fight over what the other person said.

I left this very area that you are now in because I don't enjoy discussing various translations of the Bible. To other men like Thomas Cassidy this is their expertise and what they enjoy doing. I will just hold on to the truths in Jesus Christ as the Lords enabled me to see them and the precious doctrine that I defend. What other men do is between them and God!...Brother Glen

[ March 08, 2002, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: tyndale1946 ]

Thank you so much, Brother Glen. My sole motive for starting this thread was to encourage people to step back and see what's really important--THE EVANGELISM OF THE LOST AND ENCOURAGEMENT OF THE SAVED.

This KJV controversy has really cost the cause of Christ severely. I look at the rancor and wickedness in spirit (tone) that transmits back and forth in this board and elsewhere and I am very saddened. What must Christ think? His Word was given to point us to Him, not to become an END in and of itself.

Christian colleges are battling each other. I watch Bob Jones University and Pensacola Christian College go back and forth and I want to weep. Why must they do that? I know what's happening grieves Dr. Bob Jones III. He's told me so to my face. Dr. Jones for one wishes it would stop.

A missionary came by our church this week and said how horrible it is to visit churches and see the division caused over this KJV issue. OH HOW HAPPY SATAN MUST BE! He loves this thing we have going over this translation of the scriptures. We've played right into his hands (as usual ).

Glen, you're a preacher. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could just take our KJV Bibles and do the work of the Master? I will live by and stick to the KJV, but I will not allow and aruguent over the KJV to stand in the way of the Spirit of God using me in someone's life. After all, it's about people. Why were we left in this world? To fight over the KJV or to witness for the Master? You all know it's the latter. But, as a sidenote, I will use the KJV as I do this work of the Master! I love that blessed translation!!

Again, brethren, let's put aside this carnal foolishness and be about the Master's business. (and, arguing the KJV is NOT part of His business...deep down in your heart all of you know that...be honest)...

First of all I'm not a preacher but a song leader and church clerk with 34 years of serving the Lord. I agree with what you say and the spirit in which it was delivered. Its heartwarming to see those strive for the faith that was delivered to the saints but to agree with our fellow brethren seems to be a bone of contention. I told those here that God is not the author of confusion. The scriptures declare Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. This is all we can do and how someone serves God is up to them and the Lord. Choose whom you will serve this day... As for me and my house we will serve the Lord!... I feel all the believers on this board are trying to serve the triune Godhead in their own way as God has given them knowledge in the face of Jesus Christ. That is the only knowledge that is benefical to every believer. God is the only one that gives us that knowledge of himself. He uses the scriptures to tell us what he has already done and continues to do for his creation. I'm KJV only and proud of it but that is for me and me alone. God has never used any translation of the Bible KJV included to eternally save anyone! This is sound doctrine and the word of God will back it up 100%! To declare anything else is to say the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ was of none effect... Brother Glen

The blood of Jesus Christ, God's son, cleanses us from all sin! Hallelujah!

Well said Daniel.

As I've stated on another thread, I hope we can get past this useless controversy and move on to more important matters. Those who love the KJV should keep using it, but without judging those who don't. Likewise, those who use modern versions shouldn't look down on those who stick with the KJV. End of the matter, as far as I'm concerned.

Can I hear an Amen Brother?... "AMEN BROTHER"... Brother Glen

It seems that you guys have arrived at the point of this post--looking beyond the KJV issue to the business of the Master...getting over the self-righteous condemnation of each other for using or not using the KJV...seeing the TRUE END, Jesus Christ, not the particular translation of the scriptures as THE END...this is why I started this thread in the first place...however, it doesn't have to end with Brother Glen's "amen." Keep on posting and cleansing as you feel the need...we're on a GOOD roll with this thread...LET'S NOT STOP!

[ March 10, 2002, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: Daniel ]

AMEN!!

"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

KJV and NIV....?

what does hitler, the NIV and the satanic bible have in common....

NIV and satanic bible web site

go here to find out. it will take about 30 minutes to prove that hapercollins owns zondervon that prints the NIV and also hapercollins prints the satanic bible....

this is beyond dispute from harpercollins own web site....can you miss one TV show to prove this is true....?

a Nazi scholar was the basis of the NIV also...

in Christ, bob walker

yeah it is pointless to argue over the NIV and KJV...right?

after all who cares that a Nazi theologian was used to decide what the words mean in the NIV...it is an accurate up to date babel...er bible...right?

who cares that the publisher prints the satanic bible prints the NIV...I am sure it is accurate and no changes have been made...

right? WRONG!

nice sense of humour, must say

were we supposed to be cowed into fear or something?

anyone, with an equivalent (or even lower) dash of intellectual dishonesty, cld make a case that the KJB was produced by a gay stockinged monarch who persecuted Baptists, whose translation committee contained secret Jesuits committed to including the Apocrypha n Romish feastdays within its pages, whose textual basis was a revision of a revision of a Romish priest's hurried work, who refused to have anything to do w the Reformation.

but we dun expect this to sink in either, do we? hmmm?

Originally posted by bob walker:
KJV and NIV....?

what does hitler, the NIV and the satanic bible have in common....

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Hello everyone,my name is Wayne & this is the first time I have ever posted to any board,any where.I have read a lot of them & this one seems to be the least argumentative of most.Most of them are just a way for people to vent their anger.As far as the KJV goes I personally believe it is the Word of God without error.God was not double tongued & He does not speak out of both sides of His mouth. He settled His word & that is that.If there is more than one Bible than that means God really wasn't sure so He gave us a choice of the Word that was convenient for our personal beliefs. BUT,we don't have to divide the body of Christ over this.The only problem I have with the "KJV MOVEMENT"is that there are so many that would rather argue than see a soul get saved.Not all, mind you,but a lot.One thing I don't like is the arguing between churches.Billy Graham is probably one of the best preachers I have ever heard.He has brought many a soul to the Lord.I don't like the Bible he uses but who am I to put him down.He loves the Lord with all his heart I believe.There are many men on both sides of this issue who are true born again Christians & who argue with each other.All they are doing is giving Satan an upper hand without even realizing it.I know men in this "KJV MOVEMENT" who really love the Lord & want to see men get saved.There are also men like this on the other side.I am not a great writer but I just wanted to try to get some kind of a point across.I love the Lord,I believe in His one true Word,but I don't want to turn anyone away from Christ by using His own Word to do it.
Thanks for letting me write this bungled mess.
Wayne

Originally posted by Wayne:
If there is more than one Bible than that means God really wasn't sure so He gave us a choice of the Word that was convenient for our personal beliefs.

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Hi Wayne, I disagree with this. The KJV has not always existed, there were Bibles before it. Are you saying God wasn't sure then? If multiple Bibles could exist before the KJV without God being unsure, multiple Bibles can exist today without God being unsure.

Originally posted by Wayne:
BUT,we don't have to divide the body of Christ over this.

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Amen. Unfortunately, there are a large number of the KJV-O movement who would disagree, and teach that non-KJV-Os are apostate heretics simply because they support other versions.

God bless,
Brian

Hi Brian,Nice to meet you.No I am saying that that the Bible says "Heaven & earth shall pass away but my WORDS(plural)shall not...God has always provided man with his Word.The KJV would have been of no use to a man 600 years ago, because he could not have read it.Just like the Greek is of no use to me because I don't know Greek nor do I have any desire to learn it.Head knowledge only seems to create divisions between men.If it is in your heart you know which Book is the right one.Read the auto-biography of Gypsy Smith.I see so many places where the new "bibles" take away from the Deity of Christ.I Jn.5:7 is not even in most of the newer bibles,& yet it is one of the most important verses in the Bible.The newer bibles say His father & mother,where the KJV says Joseph & His mother.Someboby knew that Joseph was not His father.But the Greek scholars don't seem to understand this.I won't keep quoting verses because I don't think there is enough room for it here.My point is that if 2 different bibles say 2 different things then at least one of them is wrong.And if we do not have the Words(plural)of God then what do we have.When some men preach every verse they read they finish it with"What this really means is...."What they are saying is I dont really believe this so I will give my own private interpretation.But I do enjoy talking to other Christians without arguing so I am glad you responded in a descent way.Talk to you later.Wayne

Hi Wayne,

Originally posted by Wayne:
My point is that if 2 different bibles say 2 different things then at least one of them is wrong.

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This is what I was referring to in my last post. There were many English Bibles before the KJV was produced. Even KJV-O author Dr. Gipp lists in one of his books 16 complete English translations (several of which you can still purchase reprints of) before the KJV. Yet none of them match exactly what the KJV says. So when you say things like "f 2 different bibles say 2 different things then at least one of them is wrong" and "If there is more than one Bible than that means God really wasn't sure", I again ask you: Are you saying God wasn't sure then? Since there were Bibles before the KJV was published, if the KJV was "right" then by your comments the rest were "wrong" so then where was God's word?

Do you not see the point?

God bless,
Brian

Hi Brian,Yes I see your point.I am sure there have been many good Bibles throughout history because I don't think God would leave us dangling & wondering.For years the Catholic church hid the Bible from the people but there was still always a way for them to hear Gods Word.He always makes a way.What I am saying is that He has given the people many different Bibles but only one at a time.Satan is a liar & the father of lies,so as a god wanna be you know he is going to have his word out there among the best.If you could actually find any thing spiritual in Living Bible(for dead people),the Good News for Modern man, the NEW american standard,the NEW international, the NEW king James,the NEW NEW NEW.It reminds me of a commercial for Tide.NEW & improved.The common person automatically thinks NEW is better.This is because they have not been regenerated.What I am saying is God will provide His people with the Word,regardless of what Satan throws at them.You will ask if I believe that these NEW bibles were written by Satan.Well the better question is were they written by God.Jesus Christ,the same today,yesterday,& forever.So why would He change His mind after all this time.If Christ tarries & we some how change languages over a period of time then I know without a doubt that there will be a Bible for us to read,without error.If I thought God was not able to keep His Words for us to read then I think I would just give up on this religious thing & go fishing. Thanks for listening,your brother,Wayne