Oh you foolish Baptists!

As usual, I agree 100% with you Murph! We forget sometimes that each of us have a personal walk with our Lord Jesus Christ. Some of us have walked with Him longer than others. Each of us has our struggles in different areas of our lives. Some may be convicted about attire or hair, while others may be convicted about parenting, or smoking, or overeating, or not being kind, or patient, or doubting, or lust. The Holy Spirit deals with each one of us where we are in our walk with the Lord, individually, one step at a time. Praise God we don't have a cookie cutter relationship with Jesus, but a Living, Breathing, Growing walk with Him! And Praise God for His Mercy and Grace! Not a one of us could ever hope to achieve perfection by our works which are "as filthy rags." And "it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us."

I am reminded there are seven things the Lord hates and calls abomination. The last one is: "he that soweth discord among the brethren."

We ALL, each and every one of us on this Board, have our faults. We are not perfect, nor shall we be perfect until we see Jesus Who is the Author and Finisher of our Faith!

We love you, Murph!

 

Thank you Lorelei. I do think that is an excellent explanation of what you are trying to get at. I don't see how anyone could miss the point. And I also agree with you. John MacArthur has an explanation of what you are saying, I think, when he talks about Jesus being the hand and the believer being the glove. It is as He directs us that we move.

The glove should not be taking credit nor accepting credit for the actions done! If Christ, through His Holy Spirit, is in you, you are not your own anyway, but your life, like Paul's is hid with Christ in God.

 

Yes, thanks Lorelei.
Maybe I missed it already in the thread, but you mentioned Paul talking of things being lawful but not beneficial. Where is that? It's very true, and I think that a lot of times when Christians realize the freedom they have they can really take advantage of it and use "it's not unlawful" as an excuse for their excesses.
Gina

 

Well, I know I said I had posted my last post, but, this just got too good.

Lorelei,

Did you notice that the NIV put the phrases "everything is permissible for me," in quotes? The reason? Because Paul was not endorsing this idea at all. Nowhere does Paul endorse this sentiment. This was the cavil of wanton souls, not sanctified souls, and Paul was countering it.

"All things are lawful," is the creed of those whose god is their belly. Notice also verse 13 where Paul continues to quote them:

These who said such things were not really interested in holiness or what was right or wrong, but were interested only in justifying their indulgences of the flesh.

The transition to sexual immorality in the same verse is therefore a natural and expected transition.

 

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the law." (Romans 3:28)
The apostle, of course, does not mean that Christianity does not produce good works, or that they who are justified will not obey the law, and be holy; but that no righteousness of their own will be the ground of their justification. They are sinners; and as such can have no claim to be treated as righteous. God has devised a plan by which they may be pardoned and saved; and that is by faith alone. It may be remarked here, however, that this doctrine by no means interfers with the doctrine that good works are to be performed by Christians. Paul urges this as much as any other writer in the New Testament. (A.Barnes)

 

As far as works are concerned, I believe that our Savior said it best in (Matther 5:16) "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven."
It isn't suppose to be about us, but our Father and Him being glorified. And thanks for the post Lorelei. It made me do some research tonight.

 

I know that I am jumping in late but here it goes...

We are commanded to be holy 1 Peter 1:15-16 (KJV)
We are commanded to be perfect Matthew 5:48 (KJV)
We will never be without sin on earth 1 John 1:5-10 (KJV)

Romans 6:15-23
15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

An individual can live be saved and live a life that is not truly representative of the salvation in him (Lot). But someone that has no semblance of any change in his or her life and never shows any is not saved. We know the tree by the type of fruit Matthew 7:17-18 (KJV). They are not evil trees because they do not bring abundant fruit, But because their fruit shows that they are evil.

You are not good because you do good. You do good because you are good. (Note: you can only become good through Christ, which begins with salvation)

Also note what happens to the corrupt tree in Matthew 3:10.

 

The only Holiness we possess comes from Christ living in us, not in what we do. You are right, no one is saying that is how you get to heaven, but they are saying how they define "Holiness". They aren't defining it by the Spirit but by the actions of men. They themselves may realize that this knowledge came to them by the Spirit, but others are believing that they have to be Holy on thier own. They define walking in the Spirit as practicing holiness. They practice holiness all day long, but they don't succeed and they never will. My problem is where the focus is.

My problem is that I feel you have judged the heart of others, you have no way to know how they define holiness. I am still curious as to where your focus is, maybe I have missed it but until further enlightened I will maintain that your original post in this thread was an attack on some who have different convictions from you that are totally Biblical. I can't change your mind nor do I propose to try but I honestly feel this to be your intent and I don't feel it is warranted. If I am in error as to your intent please forgive me.
Murph

 

Hebrews 12:[1] Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

[2] Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God... As long as I keep my eyes on Jesus and follow him I will not turn out to be a foolish Baptist!... Brother Glen Of The Primitive Baptist Brethren

 

Aaron, what are you talking about?
Gina

 

Just as a note, Lorelei also mentioned tithing in her initial post. Why isn't she accused of attacking all those on tithing threads?
A point was being made, and as is usual a few instances familiar to the people being spoken to were mentioned. That isn't attacking anyone, that's a logical way to get people to understand what you're saying.
So, can we get rid of the whining and have someone say exactly what was wrong with the initial post apart from being offended at the title or reading into it of personal attacks?
And why get offended at it saying "baptists" anyway? Was Paul attacking the group he was speaking to when he called them by name? It's common to read the bible and apply it personally to one self or to a group today. That's what it's for. And we don't call ourselves the same thing as the groups in the bible were called.
Gina

 

In the statement above I simply stated my concerns with what I felt was an agressive post by Lorelei I also said that these views were my feelings and that if i had misinterpreted her posting that I desired forgiveness. To this I have been accused of calling her a liar which I have not. As to those who don't agree with my assesment that I was attacked in the opening post I will enter my last word on the subject.Here is her post:

Church members who say that the church is not bound under the law of the tithe are told to stop that line of reasoning and are therefore not considered to be "fundamental" in belief. Paul says:

Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?

We are no longer under the law period. If you beleive we are no longer under the law you can't say well, except for this law or that one. You either believe we are free from it all or you live by each and every one.

As Paul said in the above scriptures, it is foolish to accept salvation by grace but still try to obtain our goal by human effort.

We need to stop trying to live for God and let God live IN us.


Notice that those who believe we should tithe were attacked and that myself as the person who made the statement "stop that line of reasoning" I feel I was attacked. I was also taken out of context for this statement as it was not saying that we are bound to the law therefore I have been accused of being a legalist or pharisee. I have simply asked for the uglyness to stop.
Murph

 

Sometimes we design a house with the living room in the front when it has its best view at the back. Why do we do this? One reason; we are presenting the house to public view, and a nice picture window displays best to the public.

This is the way I see the different understandings of the same scripture by different people. It is the way we are viewing it from our perspective. I rather enjoy hearing the different perspectives. We all have the same goal, but we are coming from different angles.

Do we always do justice to the text? Not strictly, but no one has violated what could be meant. We ought to allow for such differences, and rather see where we can apply these things to our own lives, and hence put forth a better picture of our temple, our life in Christ.

When all is said and done, is it not the Lord we seek to elevate? Do we not all seek a holy life, honouring to this same God?

Cheers to all,

Jim