OldRegular
Well-Known Member
DeafPosttrib said:
Right on DeafPostTrib! Might as well invent purgatory like the RC's did.
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Salvation In the Millennial Kingdom?
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Right on DeafPostTrib! Might as well invent purgatory like the RC's did.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
thomas15 said:
The moral of this story is: Don't get impatient with the mouse. He will do it to you every time.:thumbs:
OldRegular said:
Eze 44:1 Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.
2 Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.
Zec 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
Eze 43:2 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
Eze 43:4 And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
Eze 46:1 Thus saith the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looketh toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
Ex 34:21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest:
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening.
3 Likewise the people of the land shall worship at the door of this gate before the LORD in the sabbaths and in the new moons.
4 And the burnt offering that the prince shall offer unto the LORD in the sabbath day shall be six lambs without blemish, and a ram without blemish.
Eze 40 through 48 describes the "Seventh day of Rest", or MK, you can read yourself.
If you seen any picture of the "East Gate", it's blocked up, in the 67 war the military wanted to blow it open to gain access but because of the above prophecy, they wasn't allowed.
One of the "Arab" conqueror, knew of this prophecy and touching the dead makes one "unclean", he started a "graveyard" out side the gate thinking this would prevent the prophecy from being fulfilled.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Me4Him said:
I don't understand your point. The question regarded Salvation by grace through faith, both the gift of God.
I don't know if this has been asked in this thread or not. (please do not make me go through 200 posts 
)
In the MK, the Lord Himself is there, right? In His glory? Doesn't the bible say that no one can look on the Lord and live? How are unglorified, mortals able to look upon God???
)In the MK, the Lord Himself is there, right? In His glory? Doesn't the bible say that no one can look on the Lord and live? How are unglorified, mortals able to look upon God???
OVer 400 did after the resurrection and no died from it.Amy.G said:I don't know if this has been asked in this thread or not. (please do not make me go through 200 posts
In the MK, the Lord Himself is there, right? In His glory? Doesn't the bible say that no one can look on the Lord and live? How are unglorified, mortals able to look upon God???
You are refering to seeing "God" (the Father) which is why Moses had to hid according to God else he would have died.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Amy.G said:I don't know if this has been asked in this thread or not. (please do not make me go through 200 posts
In the MK, the Lord Himself is there, right? In His glory? Doesn't the bible say that no one can look on the Lord and live? How are unglorified, mortals able to look upon God???
Amy
You are exactly correct. That is the question I asked in the OP. When Jesus Christ returns He will return in the full Glory of The Godhead.[Revelation 19; Matthew 24:30] No mortal can look upon the Glory of God and live.
I believe that Allan is incorrect in both his remarks concerning the transfiguration and
the appearance of Jesus Christ after His resurrection.
At the Mount of Transfiguration we read:
Matthew 17:1-9
1. And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2. And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
6. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7. And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
9. And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
It is true that there was a change in the appearance of Jesus Christ but He was obviously not shown in the fullness of His Glory. Note that in Verse 5: While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
A voice spoke out of the cloud, they could not see the fulness of the Glory of God. They could not see the full Glory of God and live.
As to His appearance after His resurrection there is no indication that the Glory which He had with the Father before the foundation of the world, before the incarnation had been restored. Note His ascension: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. [Acts 1:9]. A cloud received them out of their sight.
The Greek word used for cloud here is the same Greek word used in Matthew 17:5 for the cloud which obscured the Glory of God the Father from the Apostles. The full Glory of the Godhead was not restored to Jesus Christ until His ascension.
The fact that Jesus Christ will return in the full Glory of the Godhead is one of the strongest arguments against a millennial reign on earth where mortals supposedly dwell. However, Dispensationalists will never admit this.
One further point. Jesus Christ is fully God. No one can differentiate between the Glory of God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Day of Pentacost, AD 0033, Peter says under the anointing of the Holy Spirit:
Act 2:15-21 (KJV1611 Edition) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third houre of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the Prophet Ioel,
17 And it shall come to passe in the last dayes (saith God) I will powre out of my Spirit vpon all flesh: and your sonnes and your daughters shall prophesie, and your yong men shall see visions, and your old men shall dreame dreames:
18 And on my seruants, and on my handmaidens, I will powre out in those daies of my Spirit, and they shall prophesie:
19 And I wil shew wonders in heauen aboue, and signes in the earth beneath: blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke.
20 The Sunne shall be turned into darkenesse, and the Moone into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come.
21 And it shall come to passe, that whosoeuer shall call on the Name of the Lord, shalbe saued.
When the LAST DAYS AGE (aka: Church Age, Age of Grace, Time of the Gentiles, Gentile Age, etc) started there was something new :
can we next go to an age where their is not more "whosoever shall call on the Name of the Lord shall be saved"?
I know we will go to an age were we Christians will NOT Marry nor give in Marriage (Mark 12:24-25)
Act 2:15-21 (KJV1611 Edition) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third houre of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the Prophet Ioel,
17 And it shall come to passe in the last dayes (saith God) I will powre out of my Spirit vpon all flesh: and your sonnes and your daughters shall prophesie, and your yong men shall see visions, and your old men shall dreame dreames:
18 And on my seruants, and on my handmaidens, I will powre out in those daies of my Spirit, and they shall prophesie:
19 And I wil shew wonders in heauen aboue, and signes in the earth beneath: blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke.
20 The Sunne shall be turned into darkenesse, and the Moone into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come.
21 And it shall come to passe, that whosoeuer shall call on the Name of the Lord, shalbe saued.
When the LAST DAYS AGE (aka: Church Age, Age of Grace, Time of the Gentiles, Gentile Age, etc) started there was something new :
whosoeuer shall call
on the Name of the Lord,
shalbe saued.
on the Name of the Lord,
shalbe saued.
can we next go to an age where their is not more "whosoever shall call on the Name of the Lord shall be saved"?
I know we will go to an age were we Christians will NOT Marry nor give in Marriage (Mark 12:24-25)
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Ed Edwards said:
Ed
In the last chapter of the Bible, supposedly after the age of the Gentiles has passed according to dispensationalists, we read:
Revelation 22:16, 17
16. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Marcia
Active Member
What about these? It tells us that men will see Jesus in His glory. I don't think the verses indicate the cloud is hiding Jesus - I think that is reading it into the text. The text says men will see Jesus coming in glory.
And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. Matt. 24.30
But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. Matt. 25.31
Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory. Mark 13:26
Then they will see THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD with power and great glory. Luke 21.27
Stephen saw it:
But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; Acts 7.55
So we will not ever see Jesus? And we won't be able to tell Jesus from God? I know they are in the Trinitarian Godhead, but Jesus still has his ascended, glorified body.
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Marcia said:
Marcia
The cloud which conceals the Glory of God hid Jesus Christ from view sometime during the ascension. That is the Scripture I posted.
Acts 1:9
9. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
That cloud is the same cloud that led the children of Israel out of Egypt. That is the cloud that is spoken of in relation to the return of Jesus Christ as shown in the following Scripture.
Matthew 24:29-31, KJV
29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
1 Thessalonians 4:16,17, KJV
16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17. Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Revelation 1:7,8, KJV
7. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him.
We will see Jesus Christ but not in these mortal bodies. Our soul/spirit will see Him when we die. When He returns the bodies of the Saints in the grave will be resurrected with bodies like His.
Philippians 3:20, 21
20. For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21. Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
1 Corinthians 15:50-54
50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Stephen was dying when he saw the glory of God.
Marcia
Active Member
OldRegular said:
These people are not in their immortal bodies:
And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. Matt. 24.30
OldRegular said:
Ac 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (Rapture)
Ex 33:18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
Ex 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man (flesh) see me, and live.
Ge 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
God said no man could see his face and live, Jacob said he saw God "face to face" and lived,
If we use your interpretation, God or Jacob lied,
think maybe there might be something wrong with your interpretation????
When was the "FATHER" ever "lower than the angels"??.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death,
Did "GOD THE FATHER" die??
Mt 4:1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Jas 1:13 for God cannot be tempted with evil,
I think you have a problem understanding the "TRINITY". :BangHead:
DeafPosttrib
New Member
During Old Testament period, Jesus was still 100% God.
In 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea, And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that follow them. and that ROCK was CHRIST."
This passage tells us, people and Moses in the wilderness did followed the cloud, which is Jesus Christ.
Another thing to tell you, Moses did saw God in power and glory, but only saw God's back - Exodus 33:20-23. Because He is so very holy and glory. If a human actual see God's full body and face, then shall be die (vs. 20).
OldRegular,
I think you mean that when Christ comes in power and glory, when sinners of the world shall see Jesus' face, but they will die immediately. That what you mean?? Right?
Matt. 24:30 & Rev. 1:7 both tell us everyone one of the world will see Jesus coming in power and glory, they will not die immediately. But, Christ will judge them all by individual to individual at the great white throne. Also, when Christ comes, all angels will fly down to grab alive sinners up in the air, bring them all to stand before the great white throne. Then, all of them will be cast away into the lake of fire - alive with soul and body together.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
In 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea, And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that follow them. and that ROCK was CHRIST."
This passage tells us, people and Moses in the wilderness did followed the cloud, which is Jesus Christ.
Another thing to tell you, Moses did saw God in power and glory, but only saw God's back - Exodus 33:20-23. Because He is so very holy and glory. If a human actual see God's full body and face, then shall be die (vs. 20).
OldRegular,
I think you mean that when Christ comes in power and glory, when sinners of the world shall see Jesus' face, but they will die immediately. That what you mean?? Right?
Matt. 24:30 & Rev. 1:7 both tell us everyone one of the world will see Jesus coming in power and glory, they will not die immediately. But, Christ will judge them all by individual to individual at the great white throne. Also, when Christ comes, all angels will fly down to grab alive sinners up in the air, bring them all to stand before the great white throne. Then, all of them will be cast away into the lake of fire - alive with soul and body together.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!
DeafPosttrib said:
Jesus (God) was seen many times in the OT, "face to face" as the "Angel of the Lord/God", & "a Man of God", and people who saw him didn't die.
Mt 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them:
Mt 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: (Hell)
Mt 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Lu 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
Lu 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
Re 20:4 and they lived and reigned (ten/five cities) with Christ a thousand years.
No unsaved are "judged" when Jesus returns, "Tares" are cast into hell to wait for the GWT.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Marcia said:
It does not say they are in mortal bodies does it? Scripture states that mortal man cannot look upon the Glory of God and live. I have posted Scripture above [and again] that shows what happens to believing mortals when Jesus Christ returns:
Philippians 3:20, 21
20. For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21. Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
1 Corinthians 15:50-54
50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
These passages clearly show what happens to mortal believers when Jesus Christ returns: "in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump". The verse you quoted from Revelation states nothing about the state of those who see the return of Jesus Christ, only that they shall witness it. It is incorrect to interpret a passage of Scripture in a way that contradicts Scripture that is more clear in its meaning.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Ed Edwards said:
Ed
You should have noted that Peter was applying a prophecy of Joel which used apocalyptic language to the events at Pentecost.
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