Salvation In the Millennial Kingdom?

[Ed Edwards]

I think I wrote this last week when my
posting system was disrupted (not to mention my
computer):

Rjprince: //Been following along. With you in much here (but not all).//

Good. If you agreed with me totally, i'd never figure out
where I was off a hair.

Rjprince: // May jump in tomorrow if I can squeeze out the time... //

Will be good to hear from you. I'm too busy with non-computer issues,
plus I had one or both
of my computers down all week (Norton/ISP issues.

OldRegular: //You dispensationalists claim that Jesus Christ will dwell
in Jerusalem for 1000 years in the full Glory of the Godhead.//

Please say the following true statement:

Some few dispensationalists claim that Jesus Christ will dwell
in Jerusalem for 1000 years in the full Glory of the Godhead.

Elsewise you appear like you haven't read a thing that was said here.
Here on BB noDispensationalist has said anything approaching that.

BTW, you could also be correct if you said:
"We dispensationalists claim ..." and could claim anything you want.

Please, quit debating with "Walvoord, the preminent dispensationalist
theologian and former President of the Dallas Seminary" who is NOT posting
here and debate with those posting here. Thank you.

OldRegular: "If God the Son is on David's throne
in Jerusalem how are people saved? It seems to be a question
that you should be able to answer."

Indeed, in the Millennial Messanic Kingdom, Jesus will rule
from David's throne: i.e. Jerusalem. Salvation is the same
as at anytime, and dispensation: Jesus saves. There will however
be differences in the Millennial Messanic Kingdom (in the Bible called
'next age').

1. Messiah Jesus will be on earth in a physical Body
(compare to reigning from Heaven in this age)

2. The Millennial Messanic Kingdom will happen after the
glorification of the Saints; this age happens before the gloarification
of the Saints at the pretribulation rapture.

3. There will be people on earth with eternal bodies like that of Jesus
in Millennial Messanic Kingdom (former church age saints picked for
special duty with Jesus in the Millennial Messanic Kingdom; there are
no such people on earth today.

3. Some people will be sleeping with their pet asp

God the father is the same, God the Son is the same, God the
HOly Spirit is the same, people have the same sinful nature,
salvation is the same (Jesus saves through His grace and our faith), etc.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Me4Him:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
Frankly me4Him, nothing you post makes sense! And you still have not answered the question: How are all those who are born in the "kingdom" during the 1000 years saved?

WHY am I NOT "Surprised"???

Pssss, Hay, I've heard they won't let you in Heaven unless you believe, and they might not let you in the MK unless you believe in it either,

</font>[/QUOTE]Perhaps you can tell me why Saints in Glorified [Resurrected] bodies would want to live on earth in the presence of sinful mortals.

Also my name is not vern. I assume that is meant as a slur so if you refer to me in this manner again and I will object to the moderators. </font>[/QUOTE]Know what I mean, Vern, is a line from a "Comic".

How many people have lived a "thousand years" on earth since sin entered, NONE, know why??

Ge 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

How long is a "day" with God??

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

And how long do we live/reign with Jesus and "DON'T DIE"??

Re 20:4 and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Do you suppose God is making a statement with the thousand years reign, like Jesus removing "ALL OUR SINS"???

 

[Ed Edwards]

OldRegular:

Classic dispensational doctrine claims that Jesus Christ will
return to this present earth at the end of the seven year
"great tribulation" period and sit on David's throne in Jerusalem.

Those who enter this "millennial kingdom" will be
1. the glorified Church, those Saints whose bodies were resurrected in the "rapture" before the "great tribulation" and
2. mortal Gentiles and Jews somehow converted during the "great tribulation".

These mortals who enter the "millennial kingdom" will marry
and have children and in time die. Their progeny will do th
same. My question is: According to dispensational doctrine
how are all those who are born in the "kingdom" during
the 1000 years saved?

I note that I'm NOT a classic dispensationalist.
There are three groups that go into the physical earth Messanic Kingdom:

1. Selected saints from the church age elect saints
2. Jewish Israeli elect saints from the Tribulation Period
3. selected unsaved gentile nations

Group 1 was saved by the Grace of God through faith in Messiah Jesus
Group 2 was saved by the Grace of GOd through faith in Jesus being their Messiah
Group 3 (about whom Bro. OldRegular asked) are saved by the Grace of God
through faith in Messiah Jesus, who is among them.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Classic dispensational doctrine claims that Jesus Christ will
return to this present earth at the end of the seven year
"great tribulation" period and sit on David's throne in Jerusalem.

Those who enter this "millennial kingdom" will be
1. the glorified Church, those Saints whose bodies were resurrected in the "rapture" before the "great tribulation" and
2. mortal Gentiles and Jews somehow converted during the "great tribulation".

These mortals who enter the "millennial kingdom" will marry
and have children and in time die. Their progeny will do th
same. My question is: According to dispensational doctrine
how are all those who are born in the "kingdom" during
the 1000 years saved?

I note that I'm NOT a classic dispensationalist.
There are three groups that go into the physical earth Messanic Kingdom:

1. Selected saints from the church age elect saints
2. Jewish Israeli elect saints from the Tribulation Period
3. selected unsaved gentile nations

Group 1 was saved by the Grace of God through faith in Messiah Jesus
Group 2 was saved by the Grace of GOd through faith in Jesus being their Messiah
Group 3 (about whom Bro. OldRegular asked) are saved by the Grace of God
through faith in Messiah Jesus, who is among them. </font>[/QUOTE]For those in the third group. Just how does faith enter in. Jesus Chtist in the Glory of the Godhead is sitting on David's throne in Jerusalem according to dispensational doctrine. Mortal man can not look upon the Glory of God and live. So am I to understand that those who look upon Messiah Jesus, or Christ Jesus, are saved by faith before they die. Sort of like the man who grabbed the Ark to keep it from falling.

But just assume that they know that God the Son is on David's throne in Jerusalem. I mean it should be common knowledge. But that is knowledge, not faith.

So I am still confused as to how people are saved during the millennium kingdom?

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
OldRegular: "If God the Son is on David's throne
in Jerusalem how are people saved? It seems to be a question
that you should be able to answer."

Indeed, in the Millennial Messanic Kingdom, Jesus will rule
from David's throne: i.e. Jerusalem. Salvation is the same
as at anytime, and dispensation: Jesus saves. There will however
be differences in the Millennial Messanic Kingdom (in the Bible called
'next age').

1. Messiah Jesus will be on earth in a physical Body
(compare to reigning from Heaven in this age)

2. The Millennial Messanic Kingdom will happen after the
glorification of the Saints; this age happens before the gloarification
of the Saints at the pretribulation rapture.

3. There will be people on earth with eternal bodies like that of Jesus
in Millennial Messanic Kingdom (former church age saints picked for
special duty with Jesus in the Millennial Messanic Kingdom; there are
no such people on earth today.

3. Some people will be sleeping with their pet asp

God the father is the same, God the Son is the same, God the
HOly Spirit is the same, people have the same sinful nature,
salvation is the same (Jesus saves through His grace and our faith), etc.

ED ED

Ref. your point #1.

Messiah Jesus will be on earth in a physical Body (compare to reigning from Heaven in this age)

It depends on what you man by physicsl. I don't believe that physical bodies in the normal sense are able to pass through walls.

John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

The Apostle Paul also tells us something about the Resurrection Body.

1 Corinthians 15: 42-44
42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43. It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44.It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.


Ref. your point #2.

The Millennial Messanic Kingdom will happen after the glorification of the Saints; this age happens before the gloarification of the Saints at the pretribulation rapture.

Do you really mean to say that the millennial kingdom occurs before the pretrib rapture?

Ref. your first point #3.

There will be people on earth with eternal bodies like that of Jesus in Millennial Messanic Kingdom (former church age saints picked for special duty with Jesus in the Millennial Messanic Kingdom; there are no such people on earth today.

What is the difference between the eternal bodies of the special saints and the physical body of Messiah Jesus?

Ref. your second point #3.

Some people will be sleeping with their pet asp

Whatever turns you on Ed Ed!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Ed Edwards:
//The Millennial Messanic Kingdom will happen after the glorification
of the Saints; this age happens before the gloarification of the Saints
at the pretribulation rapture.//

OldRegular: //Do you really mean to say that the millennial kingdom
occurs before the pretrib rapture?//

No. My Bad. Here is my statement clarified:

The Millennial Messanic Kingdom will happen after the glorification
of the Saints; The Current Church Age happens before the gloarification
of the Saints at the pretribulation rapture.
The Church Age saints (us) are glorified at the pretribulation rapture
at the end of the current age (Church Age, Time of the Gentiles, Age
of Grace, etc).


OldRegular: //It depends on what you man by physicsl. I don't believe that
physical bodies in the normal sense are able to pass through walls.//

By Physical, i mean can be detected by physical detectors using
the laws of Physics. Apparently Jessus in His new resurrected bodies
ate food and passed through walls. When we are glorified at the
pretribulation rapture/resurrection we will be like Jesus.
By not-physical I mean spiritual/esoteric bodies that cannot be detected
by physical detectors using the laws of Physics - instead such spiritual/esoteric
bodies must be detected by metaphisical means.

As for 1 Cor 15:42-44, a body which cannot interact with the physical
plane is not much of a 'power' body.

OldRegular: //What is the difference between the eternal bodies of the special saints
and the physical body of Messiah Jesus?// I find no difference in the scripture.
We shall be like Him. Evidiently these physical bodies can go from one point
to another without traversing the points inbetween.

Old Regular: //Ref. your second point #3. //

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Edwards: //Some people will be sleeping with their pet asp //
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Old Regular: //Whatever turns you on Ed Ed!//

Tee Hee - my point

You are familair with the physical millennial Messanic Kingdom
prophecy that talks about the asp being harmless in that time.
Are there asps in heaven? I find no scripture supporting asps in heaven.
Asps are snakes on the earth.

I bet in this dispensation of Grace that you don't have a pet asp.
I know I don't. BUt it will be possible in the physical millennial Messanic Kingdon.

OldRegular: //For those in the third group. Just how does faith enter
in. Jesus Chtist in the Glory of the Godhead is sitting
on David's throne in Jerusalem according to dispensational
doctrine. Mortal man can not look upon the Glory of God and live.
So am I to understand that those who look upon Messiah Jesus,
or Christ Jesus, are saved by faith before they die. Sort
of like the man who grabbed the Ark to keep it from falling.//

Your question makes no sense unless you can find one (one will be enough)
poster on this topic who will attest to believing this belief
of 'dispenational doctrine'. BTW, you never did note that I think you
have a dispensational doctrine -- shame on you
"Jesus Chtist in the Glory of the Godhead is sitting
on David's throne in Jerusalem" is a dead strawman.

OldRegular: //So I am still confused as to how people are saved
during the millennium kingdom?//

THe same way as in the Church age which is the ongoing age NOW and
has been since the day of Pentacost 33AD and shall continue until
the pretribulation rapture puts the final period at the end of the
Church Age.

 

[Brother Bob]

 

[OldRegular]

Ed Ed

If you get caught up in the Laws of Physics I believe you will be over your head deeper than you are now.

Ed Ed you say

"Jesus Chtist in the Glory of the Godhead is sitting on David's throne in Jerusalem" is a dead strawman.

I don't know about dead strawman.

If you don't believe that Jesus Christ returns in the Glory of the Godhead read Revelation 19, which pictures the return of Jesus Christ. It is you dispensationalists who put Him on David's throne.

You should also read:

Matthew 16:27, 28 KJV
27. For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

And also:

Matthew 24:30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 25:31. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Mark 8:38. Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Mark 13:26. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Luke 9:26. For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

Luke 21:27. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Ed Ed I hope you are not calling Paul a liar when you say

As for 1 Cor 15:42-44, a body which cannot interact with the physical plane is not much of a 'power' body.

Paul states in 1 Corinthians 15:42-44:

42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43. It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Jesus Christ also tells us that God is Spirit, are you saying that God is powerless?

 

[Ed Edwards]

OldRegular: //It is you dispensationalists who put Him on David's throne.//

Again, you Brother OldRegular are a dispensationalist.

Psa 132:11 (KJV1611):
The Lord hath sworne in trueth vnto Dauid,
hee will not turne from it; of the fruit of thy body
will I set vpon thy throne.

Is this a Messanic promise?

Isa 9:7 (KJV1611):
Of the increase of his gouernment and peace there shall be no end, vpon the throne of Dauid & vpon his kingdome, to order it, and to stablish it with iudgement and with iustice, from henceforth euen for euer: the zeale of the Lord of hostes will performe this.

Is this a Messanic promise?

The Angel told Mary when she was found with child:
Luk 1:32 (KJV1611 Edition):
He shall be great, and shall be called the sonne
of the Highest, and the Lord God shall giue
vnto him the throne of his father Dauid.

Isn't this a clear prophecy of Messiah Jesus
on the throne of David?

Evidently God, the author of the Bible is
a Dispy also

 

[DeafPosttrib]

*Bump*

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Martin Luther]

Mortal people are supposedly born and die during the so-called millennial period. These mortal people coexist on earth with Saints in resurrected immortal bodies!

When Jesus Christ came the first time He took upon Himself the form of man. Faith in Jesus Christ as God Incarnate and Savior was and is essential.

If Jesus Christ returns to establish the so-called millennial kingdom He will return in the full Glory of the Godhead. Can mortal man look upon Jesus Christ in all His Glory and live?

If Jesus Christ is sitting on David's throne in Jerusalem in all the Glory of the Godhead for everyone to see what place does faith have?

The dispensationalists claim that bloody sacrifices will be reinstituted in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. For what purpose?

So I am curious, how are people saved in the so-called millennial kingdom?

The same way they are today, by obedience.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Ed,

I am wholeheartly agree with Psa. 132:11 speaks of its predict which speak of Jesus Christ, the Messiah shall set upon the throne. It is already fulfilled by His resurrection as God has exalted him up and he is now sitting on the right hand of God the Father in the heaven. This say nothing of "one thousand years". This verse predicted of Christ, who shall sit upon the throne is already fulfilled at first advent after his resurrection.

In Acts 2:25-26 say: "For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved. Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad, moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope."

David predicted that Christ shall sit on the right hand of God the Father set in the heaven is now fulfilled, that he is rejoicing of Christ.

Also, look in Acts 2:30 says: "Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne."

It speaks of Jesus Christ is now our King, after his resurrection, and he is already exalted and sitting on the right hand of God the Father in the heaven, it already happening for almost 2,000 years now.

Psa. 132:11 say nothing of 'one thousand years'. It focus on Jesus Christ who shall sit on the trhone is already fulfilled at His resurrection.

Also, I am wholeheart 100% agree with Isa. 9:7 predicted of Jesus Christ , who shall set the kingdom and to rule it is already fulfilled at His resurrection. Now he is our King.

In Dan. 7:13-14 predicted that Christ shall sit in the heaven, Christ shall have the authority and power, and will given people(saints) to dominion over the things. This is now happening since after his resurrection, and already given the authority to the Church(Matt. 16:18,19) to spread the gospel over the world.

Luke 1:32-33 make the point that, Christ is now the King of Israel, and he is reigning over Israel since he brough his kingdom to Israel 2000 years, which speaking of his dominion given to his saints-Church. His kingdom has no end, it is an everlasting according Dan. 7:14 & 18.

Yes, Christ is the Messiah. That mean, He is NOW our Messiah, not supposed wait till after Second Advent for the 'Millennial Kingdom'.

Psa. 132:11; Isa. 9:7; and Luke 1:32 say nothing of "one thousand years" as so called, "Millennial Kingdom". All of these focus on Jesus Christ that, He is now our King since after his resurrection, and he is now reigning on his throne in the heaven for almost 2,000 years already.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[OldRegular]

The same way they are today, by obedience.

I thought salvation was by grace through faith, both the gift of God. The answer obedience is an open ended answer and means nothing. Obedience to what?

 

[Martin Luther]

I thought salvation was by grace through faith, both the gift of God. The answer obedience is an open ended answer and means nothing. Obedience to what?

Romans 1 (King James Version)

Romans 1

1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

5By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

6Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

 

[OldRegular]

Romans 1 (King James Version)

Romans 1

1Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

5By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

6Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

Paul states they received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith.

He did not say they received grace and apostleship by obedience to the faith.

 

[Martin Luther]

Paul states they received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith.

He did not say they received grace and apostleship by obedience to the faith.

My brother, there is no difference.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Little bit off the track, but still focus on this topic.

My question might be more clearer than OldRegular's question: "Salvation in the Millennial Kingdom?" My question is, 'Will there another second chance of salvation after Second Coming?'

The answer is no.

Matthew 25:1-13 explains very clear about the ten virgins. The five wise virgins with oil, are ready to go into the door. The five fool virgins without oil. When their bridegroom comes, the wise virgins with oil, are ready to go enter into the door. But, the five fool virgins without oil, they are unprepare, and hurry to get oil filling up and rush toward the door. When the door once shut closed. Then, the five fool virgins knocking the door, begging their bridegroom to open it and let them enter into. Then, the bridegroom says to them, "Verily I say unto you, I know you NOT." - Matt. 25:12.

Christ's point was talking about be preparing, be watch and read for His coming. The five wise virgins with oil, are represent that they are walking in the light daily all the times, living holy, always be watch and ready all the times. The five fool virgins without oil, are represent that they are walk in the dark, living wicked. Never prepare, not watch, not ready.

The door(Matt. 25:10) is pictured as salvation in Christ. When the door onced shut closed, then the opporunity of salvation is finished. There will be no another chance to be saved once after the door shut closed is the picture of Second Coming. When the rapture comes, it will be shock toward unfaithful people and unsaved people, who are not aware and not ready, will be end up as goats(Matt. 25:32), when the angels will grab them all up in the air to face the judgment seat of Christ. All of them will be thrown away into the lake of fire. There will be no another secopnd chance of salvation for them after Second Coming is past.

Jeremiah 8:20 tells us very clear, it says: "The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved."

Harvest is picture same as gathering/rapture at Second Coming.

Once the harvest is past, it is too late for people who are not ready, not watch, not prepare, will be lost-cast away into the everlasting fire at once.

Nowhere in the Bible say that, any individual will have another second chance to repent once after Christ's coming is past.

That why, I reject pretribulationism doctrine & premillennialism doctrine on another second chance of salvation after Christ's coming. It is unbiblical.

Christ commands us that, we ought always be watch and ready all the times right now, not know when Christ comes, or if we do not watch and ready at Christ's coming, then we might be end up in group of goats, and to be cast awya into everlasting fire in the presence of Christ and his angels at His coming.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 - Amen!

 

[OldRegular]

My brother, there is no difference.

There is but its not worth the effort.

 

[OldRegular]

Little bit off the track, but still focus on this topic.

My question might be more clearer than OldRegular's question: "Salvation in the Millennial Kingdom?" My question is, 'Will there another second chance of salvation after Second Coming?'

The answer is no.

Right on DeafPostTrib! Might as well invent purgatory like the RC's did.

 

[OldRegular]

Little bit off the track, but still focus on this topic.

My question might be more clearer than OldRegular's question: "Salvation in the Millennial Kingdom?" My question is, 'Will there another second chance of salvation after Second Coming?'

The answer is no.

Right on DeafPostTrib! Might as well invent purgatory like the RC's did.