Brother Bob
New Member
James_Newman:
Is that statement to me?
Is that statement to me?
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Salvation In the Millennial Kingdom?
- Thread starter OldRegular
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Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Gen 2:7 (KJV1611 Edition):
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, & breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a liuing soule.
Was Adam created to live on the earth
or did he live in heaven?
He lived on earth. Those who live on
earth are SOULs
James_Newman
New Member
Are you saying that the beheaded souls are not resurrected?
1 Corinthians 15:12
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1 Corinthians 15:12
12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
Brother Bob
New Member
So you believe it is the souls that are down in hell. There was a body there before God breathed into his nostrils. Body goes to the grave soul either goes to Heaven or Hell.
1 Thessalonians, chapter 5
23": And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
If you want to really get it right ED.
You didn't answer reigned?
James_Newman:
If you are calling me sadducee, then you are calling the writer of the scripture a sadducee for I didn't put the words in there. (blasphemy)
Absolutely not saying that they was not ressurected just highlighted the words in the scripture were past tense. You see I believe one day as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day with the Lord and it says: The Souls lived and reigned.
1 Thessalonians, chapter 5
23": And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
If you want to really get it right ED.
You didn't answer reigned?
James_Newman:
If you are calling me sadducee, then you are calling the writer of the scripture a sadducee for I didn't put the words in there. (blasphemy)
Absolutely not saying that they was not ressurected just highlighted the words in the scripture were past tense. You see I believe one day as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day with the Lord and it says: The Souls lived and reigned.
To OldRegular,
I have been reading this post for several days and I must say that it does not seem that you are truly looking for a biblical answer. Perhaps you are looking to extend the post for a record of some sort or perhaps you like to read your supposed witicism I am not sure.
What I am sure of is that many responders have answered your question and you have refused to accept their answer. Simply put salvation never changes; it has been, it is and it always will be salvation by grace through faith. How much more clearly would you like to hear this. What is it you do not understand about salvation by grace through faith. Those in the MK will be saved exactly as you were, by same God, who died the same death, placed the same blood on the mercy seat of haevaen and rose from the same grave, by the same power.
Hebrews 11:6 But WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
I don't want to be or seem rude or childish but the answer to your question is "they are saved by faith" it is scriptural answer and an unarguable answer as well.
You may have some questions concerning the glory of God and such but those are not salvation questions those are particulars dealing with your views of the MK vs others.
thjplgvp
I have been reading this post for several days and I must say that it does not seem that you are truly looking for a biblical answer. Perhaps you are looking to extend the post for a record of some sort or perhaps you like to read your supposed witicism I am not sure.
What I am sure of is that many responders have answered your question and you have refused to accept their answer. Simply put salvation never changes; it has been, it is and it always will be salvation by grace through faith. How much more clearly would you like to hear this. What is it you do not understand about salvation by grace through faith. Those in the MK will be saved exactly as you were, by same God, who died the same death, placed the same blood on the mercy seat of haevaen and rose from the same grave, by the same power.
Hebrews 11:6 But WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
I don't want to be or seem rude or childish but the answer to your question is "they are saved by faith" it is scriptural answer and an unarguable answer as well.
You may have some questions concerning the glory of God and such but those are not salvation questions those are particulars dealing with your views of the MK vs others.
thjplgvp
James_Newman
New Member
I'm not calling you a sadducee, I'm asking. Do you really believe in a bodyless 'resurrection'? How is that a resurrection?
Romans 6:5
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Did Christ have a body when he rose? Then so will we. How could Christ promise that not a hair on our head would perish? Simple. He is going to resurrect it.
Romans 6:5
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Did Christ have a body when he rose? Then so will we. How could Christ promise that not a hair on our head would perish? Simple. He is going to resurrect it.
Brother Bob
New Member
Oh I believe there are souls in Heaven as we speak, don't you?
1 Thessalonians, chapter 4
"13": But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
"14": For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Romans, chapter 8
"10": And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
"11": But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
So you see those souls in Heaven will receive a perfect body in the resurrection.
Let me go a little farther: I believe that the soul must be resurrected from a dead state of sin and the body must be resurrected from the grave or dust to which it will return.
Resurrection of the soul: His apostle said Master let me tarry that I may bury my father and He said let the dead bury the dead. He was talking about a natural death of the father and those dead in sin that were with the father.(the soul that sinneth shall die)
1 Thessalonians, chapter 4
"13": But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
"14": For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Romans, chapter 8
"10": And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
"11": But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
So you see those souls in Heaven will receive a perfect body in the resurrection.
Let me go a little farther: I believe that the soul must be resurrected from a dead state of sin and the body must be resurrected from the grave or dust to which it will return.
Resurrection of the soul: His apostle said Master let me tarry that I may bury my father and He said let the dead bury the dead. He was talking about a natural death of the father and those dead in sin that were with the father.(the soul that sinneth shall die)
James_Newman
New Member
I don't know that I believe that. I don't think it matters. But I don't see where in the bible a person is considered to 'live' without a body. A soul disembodied is a dead person.
Brother Bob
New Member
You are the ones putting earth with that scripture, not me. You are missing the point that the Scripture says reigned (in past tense)
It also says I saw the souls of them. It is talking about seeing a part of a whole . If as Ed says it was talking to the whole man why didn't the scripture say "I saw the souls that were beheaded instead of saying I saw the souls of them that were beheaded.)
And why did it say reigned?
I am just wondering, why?
Also, you don't think it matters. (quote)
I sure do, I am 67 years old and it won't be too long I am expecting the angels to carry my soul to Christ and I can enter into that rest Apostle Paul spoke of when he said "it is far better to be with Christ"
You and I will be alright after we get to know each other a little better James.
It also says I saw the souls of them. It is talking about seeing a part of a whole . If as Ed says it was talking to the whole man why didn't the scripture say "I saw the souls that were beheaded instead of saying I saw the souls of them that were beheaded.)
And why did it say reigned?
I am just wondering, why?
Also, you don't think it matters. (quote)
I sure do, I am 67 years old and it won't be too long I am expecting the angels to carry my soul to Christ and I can enter into that rest Apostle Paul spoke of when he said "it is far better to be with Christ"
You and I will be alright after we get to know each other a little better James.
James_Newman
New Member
I may be wrong but I believe all of revelation is written in past tense. It is the record of the vision that John saw, it is all past tense.
The idea that we go to heaven when we die and spend eternity there with the Lord has much less support than the earthly reign of the Lord. I realize that is the traditional teaching of most churches, but I don't see it in scripture. Whether we spend the interim period between our death and the resurrection in heaven or in the grave is debatable, but it is not the rest that we are to hope for.
Titus 2:12-13
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ;
It is at his second coming that this hope will be realized, not before. The dead in christ may or may not be in heaven, but at the second coming they will be raised.
The idea that we go to heaven when we die and spend eternity there with the Lord has much less support than the earthly reign of the Lord. I realize that is the traditional teaching of most churches, but I don't see it in scripture. Whether we spend the interim period between our death and the resurrection in heaven or in the grave is debatable, but it is not the rest that we are to hope for.
Titus 2:12-13
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ;
It is at his second coming that this hope will be realized, not before. The dead in christ may or may not be in heaven, but at the second coming they will be raised.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Jame_Newman: //The idea that we go to heaven when we die and spend eternity there with the Lord has much less support than the earthly reign of the Lord. //
Yep. That is exacly right, AMEN! even.
Yep. That is exacly right, AMEN! even.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I want say that you are rude and childish.
However, you say that people are saved by faith during the so-called millennium. Faith in what? God the Son in all the Glory of the Godhead is sitting on David's throne in Jerusalem. Mortal man cannot look upon the Glory of God and live. Are they saved by faith that He is sitting there sight unseen! Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
OldRegular says in the Millennial Messanic Kingdom:
//God the Son in all the Glory of the Godhead is sitting on David's throne in Jerusalem.//
Unfortunately this strawman has NO scriptural basis.
Excuse me, I'm going elsewhere to go burn my own strawman
//God the Son in all the Glory of the Godhead is sitting on David's throne in Jerusalem.//
Unfortunately this strawman has NO scriptural basis.
Excuse me, I'm going elsewhere to go burn my own strawman
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Can you show me a passage of Scripture that shows that Jesus Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years? </font>[/QUOTE]Read Revelations 20: 2-10, 9-10 especially, the fire come "DOWN" from Heaven, so evidently the people it "devours" are not "IN HEAVEN", so where are they??? </font>[/QUOTE]me4Him
As usual you avoid the issue. I am surprised you did not post a chart. Neither of the passages you reference address the question:
If they do then please provide a complete exegesis, not eisegesis, to show that Jesus Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years. </font>[/QUOTE]There's none so blind as those who refuse to see.
You are being disingenuous to say the very least. You cannot show one passage of Scripture that states that Jesus Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years. You simply evade the issue by being silly!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
In the scriptures you listed.Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by James_Newman:
Revelation 5:10
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Yeah, but where does it say on earth for a thousand years?
Rev 20:1 (KJV1611 Edition):
And I saw an Angel come down from heauen,
hauing the key of the bottomles pit,
& a great chaine in his hand.
The scene is DOWN FROM HEAVEN.
I suggest earth as a better place than any
other.
Rev 20:3 (KJV1611 Edition):
And cast him into the bottomlesse pit,
and shut him vp, and set a seale vpon him,
that he should deceiue the nations no
more, till the thousand yeeres should
bee fulfilled: and after that hee must
be loosed a little season.
The scene has from it THE BOTTOMLESS PIT.
I suggged earth as a better place than
any other.
Rev 20:4 (KJV1611 Edition):
And I saw thrones, and they sate vpon them,
and iudgement was giuen vnto them: &
I saw the soules of them that were beheaded
for the witnesse of Iesus, and for
the word of God, and which had not
worshipped the beast, neither his image,
neither had receiued his marke vpon their
foreheads, or in their hands; and they
liued and reigned with Christ a thousand yeeres.
Undoubtedly, the earth is where the
reign of Christ happens: the Millennial
Messanic Kingdom. </font>[/QUOTE]ED ED
Are you trying to impress or confuse by using the 1611 KJV which is laborous to read to say the least.
That being said you went to all the trouble to post Scripture and still can't post one that shows Jesus Christ will reign on earth for 1000 years. The reason is that it doesn't exist just as Scripture showing the so-called rapture does not exist.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Actually Scripture teaches that after the general resurrection and the Great White Throne Judgment [John 5:28, 29; Revelation 20:11-15] the Church, the Bride of Jesus Christ, which is the redeemed of all time will live on the new heaven and earth throughout eternity with the Triune Godhead.[Revelation 21, 22]
Until then the souls of deceased saints will live in heaven with Jesus Christ. These souls Jesus Christ will bring with Him when He returns to be reunited with their resurrected bodies.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Amen, Brother ME4HIM -- Preach it!Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Me4Him:
There's none so blind as those who refuse to see.
To see more see this site:
http://www.ebccnet.com/lcharts/
Clarence Larkin Charts.
Clarence Larkin made prophetic charts just prior to WW1
(1914-1918). These charts are still for sale. </font>[/QUOTE]Ed Ed
I can recommend a good opthomologist, a Christian one. But of course if you keep trying to understand Scripture reading the 1611 version perhaps there is no hope.
Brother Bob
New Member
Matthew, chapter 10
28": And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (sinner)
Revelation, chapter 6
"9": And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, ( very similar to the souls that lived and reigned with Christ) and for the testimony which they held:
"10": And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? These souls were not on earth they were under the altar of God.
Philippians, chapter 1
"22": But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
"23": For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ ; which is far better: ( sure wasn't talking about his body)
"24": Nevertheless to abide in the flesh (body) is more needful for you.
1 Thessalonians, chapter 4
"13": But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
"14": For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus ( If God is going to bring them with him must be coming from Heaven) will God bring with him.
"15": For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
"16": For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
"17": Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air : and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
"18": Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Tell you what, you and Ed stay here and I will go to Heaven when I die and in the resurrection my soul will come back to reunite with my body and both soul and body will go to Heaven for eternity.
Amen
[ March 27, 2006, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]
28": And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. (sinner)
Revelation, chapter 6
"9": And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, ( very similar to the souls that lived and reigned with Christ) and for the testimony which they held:
"10": And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? These souls were not on earth they were under the altar of God.
Philippians, chapter 1
"22": But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
"23": For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ ; which is far better: ( sure wasn't talking about his body)
"24": Nevertheless to abide in the flesh (body) is more needful for you.
1 Thessalonians, chapter 4
"13": But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
"14": For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus ( If God is going to bring them with him must be coming from Heaven) will God bring with him.
"15": For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
"16": For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
"17": Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air : and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
"18": Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Tell you what, you and Ed stay here and I will go to Heaven when I die and in the resurrection my soul will come back to reunite with my body and both soul and body will go to Heaven for eternity.
Amen
[ March 27, 2006, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]
Brother Bob
New Member
John, chapter 14
1": Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
"2": In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
"3": And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am , there ye may be also.
Where I am and there are the words to focus on for there means where He was going when He left here after His resurrection.
1": Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
"2": In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
"3": And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am , there ye may be also.
Where I am and there are the words to focus on for there means where He was going when He left here after His resurrection.
James_Newman
New Member
Do we just ignore 'I will come again'? The second coming is the obvious frame of reference here.
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