Psuedo-Catholic Protestant Denominations

"Hate-site"? Sorry, but I really don't detect any 'hate' from either of these articles. If someone doesn't agree with another's doctrine/teachings, that doesn't necessarily mean they "hate" them. If your Church teaches that 1844 somehow inauguarated a new 'era', then please understand that most of us think this is false. If your church teaches so-called 'soul sleep', please understand that the Church, for 2,000 has never embraced that idea. If your church calls for worship on Saturday (and that those who worship on Sunday are apostate, etc.,)please know that the Christian world, for 2,000 years, has never embraced that idea either.

Your last question betrays a mis-understanding of Anglicanism. Many Anglicans, myself included, do not think of themselves AS Protestant to begin with... We ARE Catholic. We are AS 'Catholic' as the Roman Church or the Orthodox. We embrace many -but not all- of the teachings that Roman catholics and orthodox do. We are in Apostolic Succession...which means that our orders are 'valid'. We believe in the sacred priesthood and the episcopacy. We believe in 7 sacraments, the Eucharist being chief among them, and yes, in the Real Presence of Christ. We believe that the Bible (including the so-called Apocrypha)is the Word of God inspired. We believe in baptismal regeneration. We reject sola fide and sola scriptura. We believe (unlike the 7th day Adventists, Mormons, Jehovah's Witness' and Martin Luther himself)the promise of the Lord, recorded at the end of Matthew's gospel, "I will be with you alway, even til the end of the age."

 

Hi again 3 Angel's Mom,

I talk to a few Catholics I know and all of them were confused by the idea that the Church teaches Christ has already come. This comes from one of them:

 

Vatican 2 taught that the Scriptures are without error, so yes, Catholics believe the Scriptures are inerrent. However, the Church believes they do not contain all revelation, hence their appeal to "Sacred Tradition". It is also insisted that Scripture is impossible to understand properly without an infallible interpreter, which of course would be...the Catholic Church.

This is what the Catholic Church teaches, not what I necessarily believe. There is enough to refute in what Roman Catholicism teaches without misrepresenting its doctrines.

 

To return to the question posed by the OP, AFAIK there are no differences between the Catholic and Protestant views of the Trinity and Christology, as affirmed by the Ecumenical Councils of Nicaea I and Constantinople I (Triune God, the Son not subordinate to the Father, 'One Substance'), and Ephesus and Chalcedon (Jesus being fully God and fully Man, two natures in one Person).

I don't see what all the fuss is about

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Jude quotes John Ankerberg

That is a pretty old quote - the church is now at around 12 million.

I first met Ankerberg while working with his brother-in-law in Tenn. I attended one of the studio taping sessions (actually about 4 sessions since he has so many commercials that a 1 hour session exands into 3 or 4 broadcasts).

Anyway - interesting show - that is for sure.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Yes - Jesus being fully God and fully man, for example.

Helen/AITB

 

"Ok, what is YOUR point. It is JUST my opinion about WHAT? Why are we even discussing this?

DOES YOUR CHURCH HAVE ANY DOCTRINES THAT ARE CATHOLIC???

That is the topic."

I posted for you some of the same teachings that our church has with the Catholic church. You said that the Catholic church actually did not believe in the things I posted, and I am now saying that that is different from what I have been taught out of the horses mouth. However, if they are lying to me for some reason about what they believe and teach, hopefully someone (you or someone else) will be able to show me how.

"If you agree with them, maybe you should join up!"

Maybe, so far no one has been able to show how they are in error on anything that is official doctrine, however I have a whole ton more studing to do, and there are many things I still disagree with. People have been able to show how their own misunderstandings of what the Catholic church is would lead one to believe the Catholic church is anti-Christ, but not through what the Chruch actually teaches.

"They call her comediatrix AND coredemptrix. What you just did, I have heard of before, it is called Apologetics. It doesn't take away the fact that they call her that. DO YOU call her that? Is that something your protestant denomination does?"

You have to allow yourself to move beyond the language barrier. For instance, it's like if you tell me that "Hola" in Spanish means "Hello" in English and I turn around and say "It does not! It means 'Stop!'". Despite what I believe the word to mean, for the Spanish people it means "Hello" and thus, I cannot hold it to them that they believe it means "Stop".

How is this relavent to anything? Yes, they call Mary these things, and you may believe that the word means one thing, but if the Church tells you that they believe it means another, you have to give them that. Thus, if they do not believe Mary is our Savior with Jesus, you cannot hold that to them.


"Ok, are you Catholic?"

No, and I may not agree with them on some points, but if we are going to discuss Catholic doctrine, and if we are going to teach against the Catholic religion, we should at least do it for what they actually believe.

Look on this forum, there was an extensive discussion about it.

I will see if I can find it. Thanks.

"hint: beads, wafers, kneeling......."

Okay.

Beads: I'm assuming you are talking about the rosary. From what I understand about the rosary is it is basically a counting tool. Each rosary has 154 beads, and each time they say a prayer in the rosary, they count 1 bead as to keep their count. How does this add to salvation? No one is under any obligation at all to say the rosary or use the beads. But many people find it helpful and spiritually uplifting.

wafers: I'm not totally sure what you mean by this. Are you refering to communion? How does wafers add to salvation?

kneeling: I'm not positive what you mean by this one either. Are you saying that it is wrong to kneel before the Lord in prayer? I haven't read the entire catachism yet. Could you point me more specifically towards what you mean?

 

Yes - Jesus being fully God and fully man, for example.

Helen/AITB </font>[/QUOTE]And why do you think that is a Catholic doctrine?

</font>[/QUOTE]Because they say it is...

Quoting from Catholic Encyclopedia: Christology:

CHRISTIAN TRADITION

Biblical Christology shows that one and the same Jesus Christ is both God and man.

Seems pretty clear to me.

Do you not consider it a Catholic doctrine? How do you define a Catholic doctrine, then? What is it other than what the church officially believes and teaches???

Helen/AITB

 

I think it is.

But anyway, that wasn't what you asked. You asked whether it was a Catholic doctrine. That was what I was responding to.

Helen/AITB

 

3AM, you asked whether my doctrine of the Trinity is the same as the Catholics'? Well, um, yes; both are defined by the same Ecumenical Councils. I was brought up a Catholic, so I should know!

BTW, is a comediatrix a female comedian?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

"Well, so far we have encountered points where you think they believe something, and I think they believe another. There is a good chance that you are experiencing a 'personal' belief of a Catholic (which may differ from the official position), and I am going off what I have read, from a theology student of a Fransican university, and ALL the sites that he has pointed me to."

If you are going off of what you have read from a theology student perhaps it is the opinion of the theology student? I am going off of what I read in the catachism and then bouncing that off of a priest, two theology students (each from a different rite), and several laypeople. Nonetheless, I am providing references to where the catachism talks about something, which is of course the official doctrine of the church.

"Has anyone shown you what is wrong with Salvation by works?"

Salvation by the works of the mosaic law would be a really bad thing, cause it doesn't work. I'm glad they don't believe in that though. From what I understand they confirm Ephesians 2:8-9, John 3:16, and Romans 3:23-26. Yet they also confirm that faith WITHOUT works is dead, and that we must perservere to the end. They affirm that as the bible says, salvation is by faith working in love.

What about praying to the dead?

Actually they pray to the living. Those who are in heaven aren't dead. They are very much alive and face to face with God. Remember, the Bible tells us to offer up intercessions.

"What language barrier? This is ENGLISH speaking Catholics calling her this!"

When I say language barrier I mean, what you think a word means, verses what definition they give it.

"I will, if you can show me that the word mediator and redeemer means something other than mediator and redeemer!"

They believe that Mary, like the other saints that they ask for prayer from, brings our prayers to Jesus. They do not believe Mary is a "mediator" between us and God. Like if you were to ask a friend to pray for you, they believe that she will pray for us. (Ask things of God on our behalf)

"I didn't ever say they believed that Mary was 'Savior' with Jesus. I do not recall anyone EVER saying THAT."

Sorry, I meant it purely as a hypothetical example.

"But they DO call her coredeemer and comediator."

co=with. They believe that she played a part in our salvation (the redemption of the world) by saying "yes" to God. She brought the Savior into the world (can I get an Amen?). And that is what they mean when they say that she "played a part in our salvation". She never paid for one of our sins. She didn't hang on the cross for us. She simply allowed God to use her and work through her.

"Which gives her communicative ability between God and man"

No, she has to go to Jesus too just like we do.

"And the redeemer part, is really rediculous considering that if SHE hadn't have taken the task, someone else would have. It is really ludicrous to imply that her CONSENTING to God's Will makes her have a PART in the Redemption of mankind to God."

Do you also think it is luicrous to think that Moses played a part in the Jews freedom from Egypt by allowing God to work through him?

"People do God's Will ALL the time, all over the world. Why does it make HER special, that she consented to do God's Will?"

How many other people brought the Savior into the world? We believe she is special because the Bible tells us so- God's angel said "Hail Mary, Blessed are you among woman".

"The point was to see if Protestant churches had doctrines that connected them to the CC. Not to discuss the actual doctrines."

Of course they are connected. As you said- Luther WAS a Catholic monk :-D

"Then I was told that the 7 sacrements are necessary for Salvation."

Ah those. We should probably bring that discussion into a new thread as it is a huge one.

Read THIS

Okay, so where is the problem?

"Why would I do that? No, I am talking about the kneeling before things OTHER than God"

I asked because you weren't clear on what you meant. You mean like kneeling before an alter an alter of God? Or something like that?

I don't think it is necessarily wrong to kneel before someone else- like how people kneel before the Queen of England. It simply shows her reverance and respect. Sure doesn't mean that they worship her, or place her above God or make her their God.

 

I answered that question anyway, if you look at my post again.

I said "I think it is".

By which I meant I believe it to be in there, yes.

Helen/AITB