Evolutionism, what magnitude of error?

Hmmm. Is evolution theory junk science? Evolution theory explains why I have the non-coding genes for making vitamin c. Evolution theory explains why I have a coccyx and an appendix. Evolution theory explains why I can wiggle my ears. Evolution theory explains why whales have vestigal hip bones. Evolution theory explains why there are so many many fossils of extint creatures. Evolution theory explains things that could be listed for pages and pages.

Nope, its not junk science.

zero of course. However, the magnitude of of the error of OPPOSING evolution is pretty large, because it places a barrier before those we would reach for Christ - the barrier of asking them to deny what they know to be true.

evolution is science, not religion. You'll have to ask God why He chose to not make Himself readily visible to all by means of frequent, visible miracles; finding a natural explanation for the patterns of life is merely an extension of that well known pattern He follows.

What proof do you have for your estimates based on the world wide incidence of christianity and the correlated world wide incidence of acceptance of evolution? What surveys cite these notions?

That's not true. The heart of Genesis One is fully compatible with evolution when properly interpreted.

maybe they've had more time to think about it?

Who says they're foremost? The modern catholic church has taken steps to apologize for the shameful condemnation of Gallileo and his contemporaries and is seeking to avoid making the same kind of mistake with regards to evolution. That's one advantage of being educated, one can realize the pitfalls that are out there to be avoided.

BobRyan is not baptist, he is Seventh Day Adventist. As such, he is slavishly bound to interpret the Bible in accordance with the teachings of his church and is not free to objectively consider the evidence for interpreting in any other fashion. Hence his continual war with evidence, reason, and any alternate way of interpreting the Bible. In this he shows the same resistance to new learning shown by the pharasees of old.

 

That is such atheistic evolutionist mythological nonsense.

The reason is God. I urge you to accept the truth and not the lie put forth by Theophobes and Secularists.

 

I'll bite. I rarely enter these discussions, except to play advocatus diaboli from time to time. But there's one question that I and others have raised that never gets an answer.

Forget carbon dating for a moment. Forget old earth ideas and long time lines for a monent. There is one issue that YEC literalists do not have an answer for, and that cannot be explained if Genesis 1 is literal:

Why is it that dinosaur bones are never found to be in the same era as modern humans? Even if one presumes that carbon dating is flawed, dinosaur bones are consistently found to be of a different age than human bones. The age differenes can only be explained that dinosaurs and humand lived in diffrent eras, and that humans were not present when dinosaurs were present. Even if we presume that carbon dating is flawed, the resultant date ranges should overlap when tested, but they do not. Even if the earth is, say, 10,000 years old, the fossil evidence does not support the idea that humand and dinosaurs once shared the same place in time.

 

That is not true. I would advise you to take some time and Google the subject along the lines of "dinosaurs and humans existed together".

The truth will ultimately defeat evolutionist mythology. In the meantime, I urge everyone not to buy into its lies.

 

That is such atheistic evolutionist mythological nonsense.

The reason is God. I urge you to accept the truth and not the lie put forth by Theophobes and Secularists. </font>[/QUOTE]Well, that doesn't say much because God is behind everything. Are you saying God deliberately designed men and other primates with the defective vitamin C gene flawed in exactly the same way in species after species?

Or are you saying that God designed animals and made most of them with the vitamin C gene just fine but got the blueprint wrong for men and other primates and just kept on copying the same gene wrongly primate after primate without noticing it?

Or are you just saying one shouldn't even think about it because thinking is dangerous?

I contend that it makes sense to view God as using the evolutionary process to create men; and the fact that this evolutionary process allows mistakes like the vitamin C thingy to come along and affect all the species downline from where the original mistake came in is no big deal.

I further contend that of all the options for viewing God and the state of affairs regarding the vitamin C gene, my own view is the least insulting towards God of them all.

 

Evolutionist mythology requires death. Death entered the world because of sin. There was no death until man sinned. Therefore, one cannot hold to evolutionist mythology and have any kind of reasonable Biblical theology at the same time because he would be saying that God lied when He told us that death was the result of sin.

I will believe God, not the evolutionist mythologists.

 

The Biblical references to death coming into the world because of the sin of Adam are references to men dying, and have nothing to say about the animal kingdom outside the protected sanctuary of the garden of Eden.

 

Whose says so? And on what Biblical basis?

 

Paul, What deficiency in the attributes of God leads you to believe that He could not create the world as it suited His purpose in a moment of time?

I asked the question on another thread but perhaps you could answer:

Imagine that someone made a sculpture and abandoned it in an isolated area. Later a scientist finds it and assuming that no creative being had been involved begins to try to explain the creation by the laws of nature. Could it be explained? If so, would the explanation require that the creation be young or old?

 

You want to talk about magnitude of error? If the universe is 8,000 years old, then one magnitude of error would yield a number between 80,000 and 800 years. If the universe is estimated at 12 billion years old then 1 magnitude of error would yield limits of 120 billion to 1.2 billion years.

Point being that a "scientific" estimate that yielded one magnitude of error would be laughed down but some young earth creationists would not gag at an 80,000 year old universe.

 

Except that the age of the universe is known to much better than an order of magnitude. Studies of the cosmic microwave background have narrowed the age to 13.7 billion years, plus or minus 1 - 2 hundred million years, or an error of about 1%.

Studies of the cosmic microwave backgroung have also confirmed the theory of inflation in a stupendous way. Inflation predicted that the variation in temperature at different scales should have a very specific pattern. The pattern was the result of the way cosmic fluctuations were expanded during the infaltionary period. The results match the predictions to a very high degree.

Inflation has also enjoyed an additional recent success. Inflation predicts that the density of matter in the universe should be just what is needed to create a "flat" geometry for space-time. This seemed to be a problem when studies showed that the visible matter of the universe only contained 5% of the mass needed to make the universe flat. Then studies of the rotation of galaxies and of the motions in galaxy clusters revealed that 25% of the mass needed for a flat universe was tied up in dark matter. Still short. Then recent studies have revealed that 70% of the mass needed for a flat universe is tied up in dark energy. Amazingly, inflation's predictions are shown to be true as when you add up the total mass of the universe, it is exactly as predicted by inflation!

 

Is this your conclusion because it's necessary to fit your paradigm, or can you give some biblical back-up?

Again, is this your conclusion because it's necessary to fit your paradigm, or can you give some biblical back-up?

Each assumption you make argues from the silence of the scripture; not a very good basis to form a belief system.

While it's a fact that I can not prove your hypothesis wrong, I will stake my beliefs on what God says He DID rather than what He MAY have done and just didn't give us the details.

 

"Answer - The combination of turbidity current action and the sorting action of the flood in animal survival paradigms."



If you just understood just how wrong that statement is.

So why are similar animals not sorted in similar ways? Why are related animals orted in a means that makes them look like they evolved? Why are most fossils found to be buried in conditions that look nothing like a global flood? Like Ash!

Let's see. We have the whole world covered in water. So we then drain a little piece. We then put a whole thriving ecosystem in place overnight. We then bury this in volcanic ash. We then have the whole area covered in flood water again.



Plonk!

Come back when you have a more complete answer. I will then make a more complete mess of it.