Evolutionism, what magnitude of error?

So, on what basis were the animals sorted? Size? Density? Shape? What?

I have a link for you.

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/ponyexpress/PONY4_2/PE42.HTM#dig

This is a description of a fossil dig for horses in Florida. Now the horses they were digging up were Parahippus leonensis and Archaeohippus blackbergi and Anchitherium clarenci. In addition, the following is a partial listing of what else they found.

Anura, miscellaneous frogs and toads
Bufo sp., frog
Geochelone tedwhitei, extinct tortoise
Emydidae and Pseudemys, extinct turtles
Alligator olseni, alligator
Rodentia, miscellaneous rodents (squirrels, etc.)
Carnivora, miscellaneous kinds of carnivores
Amphicyon longiramus, giant bear-dog
Cynodesmus iamonensis, dog
Tomarctus canavus, dog
Mustelidae, various weasels and their relatives
Ursidae, true bears
Anchitherium clarenci, large, three-toed browsing horse
Archaeohippus blackbergi, three-toed dwarf horse
Parahippus leonensis, medium-sized, three-toed mixed feeder horse
Rhinocerotidae, various rhinos
Floridaceras whitei, extinct Florida rhino
Blastomeryx floridanus, small deer-like mammal
Machaeromeryx gilchristensis, small deer-like mammal
Nothokemas, larger even-toed ruminant ungulate

So, maybe you can tell us just what sorting basis would put horses, frogs, toads, tortoises, turtles, squirrels, dogs, bears, weasels, rhinos, and deer all in the same layer?

Just what did all these have in common that led to them being singles out to be put together?

The truth is that there is no answer. You cannot give a reasonable scenario in which just these would be sorted out to this layer and all other creatures excluded. Why only these three species of horse and no others? Why not all the other ungulates? What do frogs and horses have in common? Weasels and turtles?

There are already Flood threads going. You think you can answer some of the questions?

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/66/29.html - You can come tell us about meanders and angular unconformities from the flood.

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/66/18.html? - You can come tell us how to get the evidence for snowball earth from a flood.

 

Upon doing so, the only item of significance that came up was the Paluxy "man tracks", which have long since been refuted. I could find nothing else that was verifiable. Feel free, however, to post a more specific reply to my question if you like, as I welcome the discussion.

 

Unfortunately, this does not explain it. Flood sorting action would result in randomness of fossil dispersion. Fossils that creationists claim were pre-flood are found in reasonable proximity. Also, a flood sorting action would not explain the dating issue. If the Flood effected the dates of fossils, then pre-flood human remains would be affected in the same manner as pre-flood nonhuman remains, and would date similarly. They do not.

Again, no one should take this as a defense of evolution. I'm simply asking for a reasonable explanation for why dinosaur bones are not found to be in the same era as modern humans?

 

Oh, Bob, you make my case even better than I can. Your silence on how to get that particular mix of species all in the same layer speaks volumes.

Just how do frogs get mixed in over that last 200 millions years or so of strata while this particular mix end up with those fossil horses? Shouldn't all frogs sort in a similar way? Why are they not found in one layer or maybe just a few. Why did they all sort so differently?

Turtle fossils extend back almost 200 million years themselves. Why do turtles sort out over such a wide variety of layers? Shouldn't turtles all sort in a sikilar manner? Why only this narrow slice of turtle species is found with these horse species? What makes different turtles sort so differently? What makes these turtles sort the same as these horses?

It is because there has not been any hydraulic sorting of species. It is not even possible to sort them in the manner you assert but cannot describe. The fossils sort themselves in a manner consistent with their evolutionary history. The flood would have just randomly mixed everything up. I have in the past given you a reference to how well the pattern of evolution from cladistics matches the pattern of fossils found temporally in the ground.

Index fossil may be your worst nightmare when it comes to your scenraio, here. Narrow slices of widely differing species found in the same layers at many different locations.

BTW, did the flood also manage to sort rocks according to the ratios of radioactive isotopes? Because the rocks we find sure are sorted in that manner! What was the mechanism for that?!?

 

Discounting the power of The Flood--

1. There were three sources of hydraulics. Each had a different effect--all contributed to a worldwide catastrophe. See Gen. 7:11-12.

2. Imagine, the phyics and chemistry being played out in real time--plate techtonics while you watch--category 5 hurricanes everywhere. The earth being tilted 23+ degrees.

3. It is almost enough to change one's geologic timetable--and such would certainly change the anthropology and paleontology of the alluvium.

4. It also made the oil fields.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

And you stil do nothing to gaive us any possible method by which the sorting of the fossils occurred. NONE!

YOu also expose that there would be a reasonable suspicion that such a catastrophe would leave no fossils at all. Think of the sheer amount of destruction you describe. One YEer, Baumgardner I think, has calculated that the water velocity would be in the hundreds of feet per second range. He does this for erosional reasons, of course. But this would pulverize all the dead life and mean that you would find nothing more than scattered bits of body parts. Not delicate preserved fossils.

Any idea how to get the meanders and angular uncomformities of the Grand Canyon yet?

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/66/29.html

Just how did it make the oil fields? Life would have been pulverized and scattered, not concentrated and buried.

How did the change in the earth's tilt occur? Bu what process? You are aware that we can measure the tilt in the past, aren't you?

How did the flood sort all those rock layers according to the ratio or radioactive isotopes in them?

Who doubts that such a flood would be powerful? THe doubt is that it could give us what we actually see. LEt me know ehn you have logical, factual, supportable, falsifiable explanations of the above. Then we can continue.

 

The mechanism of all the destruction?

The same mechanism that shut the door on the Ark.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

Not looking for the destruction. That is obvious. Looking for the results. The results do not match the description.

How did that level of destruction sort the fossils into the same order worldwide? How did it not destroy all the life before it could even be fossilized? Why do the fossils themselves not show signs of being produced in such an event? How did the rocks ger sorted according to ratios of isotopes? How did the Grand Canyon form? How did the oil form? What changed the tilt of the earth's orbit?

 

So the answer is that you have no explanations for my questions, correct? I don't see any answers anwhere!

 

The Who, What, and How--

The Word of God--when God speaks, things happen.

Whether we can demonstrate such things in our "Laboratory" or not is our problem--not His.

Why can we not believe what He says??

We can stop counting celluloid cells now--we are surely "in the woods".
Selah,

Bro. James

 

The Who, What, and How--

The Word of God--when God speaks, things happen.

Whether we can demonstrate such things in our "Laboratory" or not is our problem--not His.

Why can we not believe what He says??

We can stop counting celluloid cells now--we are surely "in the woods".
Selah,

Bro. James

 

There are specific questions that are still unanswered. Thses are critical questions since the answers seem to be at odds with you assertions. Being unable to answer highlights this fact.

 

Forcing the Paradigm--

The basic disagreement in this issue is that trying to force The Word of God to fit what we think we see, using the evolution paradigm, seldom works.

The Word of God winds up in second place to man's tunnel vision of what he thinks he sees in his piles of overturned earth.

Man thinks--therefore he is confused.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

So the answer is that you assert that these things can be explained but you are unable to articulate a factual, logical, falsifiable process for how.

 

Falsifiability--

Is a basic fault with evolution--presented as science, it cannot be proven true or false--all the proof is based on unnecessary inference and speculation from skewed and scanty evidence.

That is not science but rather religion. The world is full of religion--most of it false.

Falsifiability is a basic tenet of the scientific method. Evolution does not hold up under the scrutiny of real scientific methodology.

God made the laws of real science. He also wrote the Book--not a science book. The Bible has not changed every ten years or less.

The Book has been attacked by the most skillful skeptics, past and present. The Book remains--a witness against all scoffers and skeptics.

The world is going to be judged by "The Book"-- not "Darwin's Finchs"--are we ready?

Selah,

Bro. James