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What it means is that all God created will be restored to the way it was before man fell, both on earth and in Heaven, according to His Plan in Jesus Christ. In vs. 11, Christ has obtained an inheritance for us, being predestined according to His purpose/ His Plan. Everything is according to...

If I found out what happened before the beginning I wouldn't be able to remember it now. Lol. Don't get old, it's not good.

John said, "In the beginning," he's referring to the beginning of creation. His point is that Christ existed at that time, and later we learn He/Christ is the Creator Himself. This is what @JonC has been warning us about, this part right here. Most scholars will tell you this is referring to...

"In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God...." It's reference to "The Eternal Logos." Logos Greek for Word. "The Eternal Word/Logos."

Good examples! I can really resonate with the military example. When I was in basic training the Drill Instructor asked if there were an duck hunters in formation. That was my thing in those days, so I spoke up. I think there were 3 of us that spent the day picking up cigarette ducks on...

I've studied the Trinity from different scholars and they definitely gave some understanding, but as far as how 3 distinct persons can be one God is not explainable, at least not to logic with the mortal mind.

I have to admit I have been guilty of that various times in the past! It's good to have someone around who will remind us we need to pay closer attention to exactly what the Scripture says and doesn't necessarily say.

I agree totally with the OP, I'm saying how 3 distinct persons can be one God cannot be explained.

Now, If you can explain that to where the mortal mind can understand, you'll be the scholar to the scholars. It's much more that just being of the same essence. I don't think the mortal mind is capable of understanding this. I think the reason there's no effort in Scripture to explain it.

It's for sure you have no idea how serious God is about sin.

One last thing before I hit the sack, and forget it. Christ at His trial before Pilate said, he who delivered me hath the greater sin. I believe this to be Christ teaching degrees of sin. If degrees of sin, then degrees of punishment. I believe the punishment of the unsaved is according to...

There are more verses I didn't care to look up but can if you like. From this I gather the understanding that the atonement will only benefit those who choose to follow Christ.

Well, it may not be acceptable for you, Jon, and that's ok with me, I'm not hard to get along with. For the saved, Heb. 9:28 "So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." Christ bears the...

We agree on many things but not here on the Law and Divine justice. lol. No two people on earth agree on the same things from A-Z in Scripture.

Sorry about that, just calling it as I see it. Hopefully you will do the same.

My point and where we disagree (and it's no big deal to me) I see the punishment for my sins being placed on Christ. As I see no sin goes unpunished. As I have said somewhere else, my sins since becoming a believer have been placed on Christ. He has carried my sins past, present and future. The...

Now concerning the wrath of God on sin, which is what this is all about, is as you have said, it's not clearly written in Scripture that wrath was placed on Christ. I see the concept of it, and believe it was, but neither of us with our theories can prove our points directly from Scripture.

I don't claim to right about everything! What I see in God's reconciliation through Christ is God saying, I love you, this is what I have done for you, I have made a way for your sins to be forgiven and be a part of my family, despite your inability and the condition you're in.

Yes, this is some heavy duty stuff we're dealing with here, and there are so many different views on the need for reconciliation. We know that Christ reconciled us to God, without this happening there could be no salvation. And He did it while we were yet sinners. Not for a select few, but...

No, Mur, I'm sorry but I don't think you are open to it. I think no matter what's said will have no effect on what you have chosen to believe. I've been discussing some of the same things in the past few days with another Universalist on another website. This is something all the...