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When he says In the first part he is the propitiation for our sins, he is speaking of believers..Ie, My little children; 2 My little children, these things I write to you, that ye may not sin: and if any one may sin, an advocate we have with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one, 2 and he...

So, are you saying there are unsaved sinners who are not under the dominion of the flesh? Did God tell Adam in the DAY you eat, dying, thou shalt surely die? let me ask you...what died that day? Did he physically die? or was he spiritually separated from fellowship with God as he sinned? I...

The word sins of is not in the text, so that changes the meaning. If you are apologizing for your condescending remarks, I could accept your apology. What you suggest that you "sometimes forget" is that people have been indoctrinated??? So if Prof.Murray teaches something from scripture , it...

Hello Cj, Do you believe Adam died Spiritually on the day he ate the fruit in the garden ,at the fall? Do you believe in what is known as Original sin?

No,,, you once again put the cart before the horse, and want us to follow the error. Sorry, that does not work, no matter how much double talk you try,lol

You claimed you studied the Greek but maybe you never quite finished your studies??? found this online; that in italics is NOT in the text. 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world. You can see the actual greek here...

Is the sins of the whole world in the text?

Not interested in your ideas of church history. You have offered no scripture at all John Murray, and Al martin are not cult leaders. You cannot deal with what they have offered. More of your false history This is a complete falsehood/, It shows you do not understand the word. Thanks for...

17 if then the equal gift God did give to them as also to us, having believed upon the Lord Jesus Christ, I -- how was I able to withstand God?' 18 And they, having heard these things, were silent, and were glorifying God, saying, `Then, indeed, also to the nations did God give the reformation...

Greg Bahnsen sees the truth clearly; The doctrine of penal substitution could be expunged from the Biblical witness only by a perverse and criminal mistreatment of the sacred text or a tendentious distortion of its meaning. What else could Peter have meant by writing to believers in the church...

You do not believe men are spiritually dead? It is scripturally based. Perhaps you can show otherwise?

Do you believe that "all died in Adam"? If not, how did any escape.

These God called "men" understand the scriptures and have listed scriptures that teach this biblical truth. Your 5 responses you have offered no scripture, which is strange as you suggest you are about "what is written"??? These"men"have offered more than 54 scriptures to zero you have offered...

Do not make things up.

Fact checkers have found this: Grant [ 1,,G1325, didomi ] to give," is rendered "grant" in Mark 10:37; Luke 1:74; Acts 4:29; Acts 11:18; Acts 14:3. See GIVE. It does not say..."allow",lol

Well said JF, You noticed the poster has offered a complete caricature of the position! Thanks for this solid observation.

Yes Brightflame, thankful for your clear post and a correct understanding of biblical propitiation. It is actual and not merely potential.

here is another clear part of this PDF; This redemption has significance not only for Jews but also for Gentiles. In the gospel economy not even Gentiles are required to undergo the tutelary discipline to which Israel was subjected. "But now that faith is come we are no longer under a tutor. For...

Believers were at one time children of wrath, even as others...you seem to miss this! Eph2: 2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that...

Thanks for your response. You have offered your ideas on it! God does both... he punishes sins either in the sinner, Divine wrath poured out directly resulting in second death, or the Divine substitute. Penal Substitutionary Atonement, the biblical answer, not an "interpretation, but rather...