Search results

Yes Rob! You have expressed the mainstream historical view, which is based on what is written quite accurately. Thanks for this fine post!

These men carefully examine "what is written" and understand what is written in scripture itself. They are totally concerned with truth. In the words of Neh.8:8 So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading. So we see that...

Dealing with those who would object, he writes this to further clarify; Perhaps no tenet respecting the atonement has been more violently criticized than this one.[6] It has been assailed as involving a mythological conception of God, as supposing internal conflict in the mind of God and between...

Some confusion remains on "what is written" when people ignore the biblical facts and word usage; Professor Murray explains; 2. Propitiation The Greek word which stands for our English word "propitiation" does not appear frequently in the New Testament. This may seem surprising when we consider...

(a) The term "passive obedience" does not mean that in anything Christ did was he passive, the involuntary victim of obedience imposed upon him. It is obvious that any such conception would contradict the very notion of obedience. And it must be jealously maintained that even in his sufferings...

Here are two more quotes from John Murray to clarify the biblical position and what is indeed written: The Death Of Christ In dealing with the nature of the atonement it is well to try to discover some comprehensive category under which the various aspects of Biblical teaching may be subsumed...

You can call biblical facts" theory" ,in an attempt to avoid truth but it will not stand! That is like a blind person calling the truth about the Sun "theory" because he cannot see it yet. The teaching and truth of the doctrine cannot be broken.

Rom.8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. This is what the bible declares about natural men.

No, you do not agree. Men are sinners born under the wrath of God. God does not wait for them to grow up, express unbelief, then put His wrath on them. You seem to be trying to fake as if you agree, but really you do not.

I see what you are offering, but that is sinful man's default position. If they are outside of Jesus, they are still subject to that wrath, that is Paul's point. The gospel is that Jesus is the propitiation, and sinners need to be in Him to escape the wrath to come.

He continues here; So much for the heresy of the enemies of the gospel who paganize the propitiation. Now, very briefly, the error of paganizing the propitiation manifested in the friends of the gospel. And again, I emphasize, I choose a different word. Some of you need a little more grace in...

The God of Gethsemane and Golgotha is the God who placed the burning sword at the entrance to Eden. is the God who sent the flood upon the world of the ungodly. The God of Golgotha and Gethsemane is the God who turned the cities of the plain into burning ashes. The God who opened up the earth so...

ibid And that's of course the point that Spurgeon asked, Owen asked, did Jesus Christ die as much for the Sodomites as for Noah and It seems to me that, as we drew that out with people, the problem was that I had a different idea of what the atonement to me is. They had some idea that the...

The Apostle Paul does not agree with your conclusion; Rom1;18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Thanks for your response and your feelings on this, I hope to offer a more mainstream and biblical view.

Your stated objections will be answered in this thread.

From John Murray in His Book Redemption, Accomplished, and Applied; 2. Propitiation. a. Differences in use of “atonement” in Old Testament in connection with ritual of expiation with the use in the NT. 1.) There are passages in which propitiation is expressly applied to the work of Christ. a.)...

Some of the wrath goes on the unsaved eternally in the second death ,justly for their sins...It had no propitiation. The wrath that had been on the elect scattered throughout the world, was placed fully upon Jesus on the cross, in PSA.

Charlie C said[ God's wrath abides on the wicked, His wrath is satisfied on them at the judgment. Judgment is the righteousness of God fulfilled on those who refuse His Son, for whatever reason]. No...God's love is not a pagan concept. Jesus as propitiation turns away the wrath of God from the...

Yes, I agree, however his personal seed were born with a sin nature. He would be included in those who are spoken of as the seed of Abraham. Jesus as the elect servant of the Lord, is the Covenant head of all the Elect as the Last Adam:):):)