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  1. M

    How Does Penal Substitution Relate to Other Atonement Theories?

    Penal Substitution is traditional Christianity. Why would it be if both sides agree on it? Then the so-called "Classic view" is wrong. Psalm 7:11. 'God is angry with sinners every day.' Romans 1:18. 'For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness.......' The word for...
  2. M

    How Does Penal Substitution Relate to Other Atonement Theories?

    The O.P. is a short summary of the position - necessarily so since people on this board tend not to read long posts. It is the basis for discussion, not the answer to the question, though it is absolutely right in all that it asserts. The point the O.P. makes, and the point I was making above...
  3. M

    How Does Penal Substitution Relate to Other Atonement Theories?

    The O.P. is correct. Any theory that omits Penal Substitution, whatever merit that theory might otherwise have, it falls short in respect of the justice of God. Penal Substitution is rooted in the character of God as He revealed Himself to Moses in Exodus 34:6-7. “The LORD, the LORD God...
  4. M

    Prayer for my church

    On Saturday, we have the Induction Service for our shiny new Assistant Pastor, Jon Hughes. Please pray for him, his wife, Katie and their three children as they settle into life in Devon.
  5. M

    Soul competence?

    1 Corinthians 1:7-16. Soul competence applies, and can only apply, to the regenerate.
  6. M

    2 Corinthians 5:21 doesn't support penal substitution (continued)

    Saul was persecuting the body of Christ, the Church (c.f. Acts of the Apostles 26:9-15; Galatians 1:13 etc.). It is true that all sins are sins against God (Genesis 39:9; Psalms 51:4) because they are against His commandments, and it is true that the Lord Jesus was bearing my sins when He...
  7. M

    2 Corinthians 5:21 doesn't support penal substitution (continued)

    I can well understand that you feel the need to use such exalted language towards me, but there is no need. "Sir" will do nicely. Again, I refer you to Psalms 37:23-25. Perhaps you would like to tell us to what historical incident Psalm 44 refers? My points was (and is) that the Lord Jesus...
  8. M

    2 Corinthians 5:21 doesn't support penal substitution (reposted)

    Matthew 17:24; Romans 13:6. Both financial obligations.
  9. M

    2 Corinthians 5:21 doesn't support penal substitution (reposted)

    How many would you need? 5? 10? 20? No! The Scriptures are true even if their truth is repeated nowhere else. But in this case, Scripture supports Scripture and there is no doubt that it pleased the Lord to bruise His beloved Son. I find Isaiah 53:10 an inspiring verse to contemplate. How...
  10. M

    2 Corinthians 5:21 doesn't support penal substitution (reposted)

    What you fail to understand is that it is God who killed the Lord Jesus. Mark 14:27, quoting Zechariah 13:7. 'For it is written, "I will strike the Shepherd."' Isaiah 53:10. 'Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him. He has put Him to grief.' I hope we can agree that whatever God does is just...
  11. M

    2 Corinthians 5:21 doesn't support penal substitution (reposted)

    That is correct. What you said was You have just conceded that you were (are) talking nonsense. That is also correct. I don't have Stott's book in front of me. If he wrote that, he was wrong. The Lord Jesus received sin's wages on our behalf. 'We all like sheep have gone astray; we have...
  12. M

    2 Corinthians 5:21 doesn't support penal substitution (reposted)

    Please don't be silly. When you receive your paycheque with wages on it someone, presumably your employer, has paid it to you.
  13. M

    2 Corinthians 5:21 doesn't support penal substitution (reposted)

    I think you will find they are. Ask anyone in business. :Rolleyes If no one pays the wages they cannot be received QED.
  14. M

    Visiting church members

    Visitation is an important part of a church's duty. Tell this man to read The Reformed Pastor by the Puritan Richard Baxter. When Baxter became the minister of the church in Kidderminster, UK, he made it his goal to visit every house in the town. He started at one end of it, and his assistant...
  15. M

    The Sins of Christ's People Have Been Expiated, Never More to Be Imputed to Them

    Amen! Isaiah 53:6. '.... And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.'
  16. M

    The Flesh Has No Hand in the Salvation of God's People

    You have clearly given your opinion that the KJV, NKJV, ESV, NASB & CSB are all 'errant versions,' but when someone takes your opinion to task it is usually your habit to squeal like a stuck pig. You have reminded me why I decided to take an extended break from this board. After this post I...
  17. M

    The Flesh Has No Hand in the Salvation of God's People

    LOL, are you unaware that this is the correct translation??? As well as the KJV, NKJV, ESV, NASB, the CSB has 'make them come in.' But of course, I forgot; you are wiser than all these Bible translators. :Rolleyes
  18. M

    The Flesh Has No Hand in the Salvation of God's People

    @Van, 1. 'We' were chosen before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4; Acts of the Apostles 9:15; Jeremiah 31:3). 2. Luke 14:23, KJV, NKJV, ESV, NKJV, NIV. 'Compel them to come in.'
  19. M

    The Flesh Has No Hand in the Salvation of God's People

    True, but..... Grace must come before faith. Chosen first, before the foundation of the world, then brought to belief (Ephesians 1:4; Acts of the Apostles 9:15; Jeremiah 31:3). True. John 6:44 applies. Yet for all that God's house is going to be filled (Luke 14:23. "Compel them to come...
  20. M

    Who can play Chess?

    Women are generally less good at chess than men. Chess tournaments and the World Championship are open to both men and women, but there is also a Women's World Championship. The Hungarian woman Judit Polgar is generally considered to be the strongest female player ever, and she decided only...
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