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Why was the physical created then.? You cannot be redeemed unless you are lost. Why create us all in heaven to begin with?

Can one sinless man save many? If one was sinless but not God how many are saved?

That does not sound good , Hank I am sure Cassidy can wait

Missing from this conversation is the question do all men have souls?, Are all men able to be saved? This has to be asked when considering canadyjd 's question about hearing the word.

but we agree that sin exists without a moral code?

The physical is not good or bad. The spiritual is moral,

He is glorified by saving sinners Good is not morally good but good for God's purpose of redemption

Nope, the story is about redemption, He does tell us, though

Verse suport verse, should they contradict other verses?

He did not say morally good but good according to His design for redemption. The physical world was not evil but it is cursed now because of sin. The physical world does not sin, spiritual beings sin Gnosticism fits the same way as Humanism, Declaring one bad is the same as saying the other...

The entire narrative and purpose is to save sinners

It is not in those chapters but they support the position.

because we are condemned already, This is a place to hold the condemned and who else needs saving?

not out of context

How can you be so right and so wrong in the same sentence?. men is added but it certainty does not change the meaning but reinforces. if not added, if I be from the earth all will draw unto me is what it says

I I took the cat's post as your better work

He draws us before we exercise Faith. He does not want any to perish He given us Faith to exercise Drawing Sinners is not election

He does, but does not interfere witb the decision Of the sinner, rish young ruler is an example. He will saved all who are willing to accept Him, his criteris

Try John 6 44

Right , He draws all men, he does not force a choice